SOP AGM.

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Ridiculous and pointless meddling by a largely unelected body. Very similar to the disgraceful way straighteners was imposed, and this according to one ‘advisor’, the electorate having their say through elected representatives.

You wanted more say in the decisions affecting you, questionable at best. You wanted change in general and to a degree you got it. Alan Jones proposed to sack 5 directors and remove them as members. An amendment was proposed by Tony Bradley at an EGM that, whist their status as Directors should be changed, their status as members should not. Despite protocol being ignored and this proposal not being voted on, the membership considered the famous 5 to have been retained as members. Robert Irvine actually ploughed at York.

2 years down the line and change you got. The Executive - a fine upstanding body of moral substance have decided not to allow Desmond the benefits of membership. Two of said body of fine upstanding moral substance are unable to recollect having a vote on it whilst one other cannot even recollect being at the meeting.

In another meeting that the same fine upstanding body of moral abundance had, but never attended, they, in their absence, decided to summarily dispense with John Plowright - £50k extra in their coffers or otherwise.

So just to recap. On the face of it you got some change. The status of JP and DJ has without a doubt changed.

However and in the areas where you wanted change then change has not been as forthcoming. The Directors still have no say whatever. The Executive still call the shots whether they are there or not and more to the point, retribution is alive, well and thriving within the SOP.

And one area remaining steadfastly unchanged........Harry is still there in there in the background arguing vehemently for both sides. :):scratchhead:

I for one will certainly not be opening up driving directly into the sun, as many societies will find the rule meddlesome, pointless and a complete waste of time.




I try to argue for ploughing, and despair that the body which is supposed to be in charge can manage to shoot itself in both feet and knees at the same time!That rule is so stupid, its as if it was a deliberate attempt to annoy the entire membership, if so, I feel it has been a great success!
It does though bear all the hallmarks of yet another capitulation to the continent, following on from the requirement to plough in the contintal manner IE Shallow wheelmarks with unploughed ground beneath them, and high mould furrows, encouraging deep finishes.( Both of these are recognised by the SOP as poor ploughing, but are a contintal, and so world requirement)[/QUOTE]
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Your last puts you on dangerous ground, to say the least. Let us though go back a bit, and examine the "Viable Alternative"
Perhaps we could all stop recirculating the same tired old arguments, and actually do something! You mention "Viable Alternative"! There is indeed space for one, so, instead of preaching to the converted on here, form some type of organisation, tour the ploughing matches, get people to join and eventually replace the sop, having gained a mandate to do so.
There is space for a viable alternative and I have put forward suggestions and offered help on a regional basis. At the age of 73 any major input is ten years too late I am afraid and as the average age of participants is probably not far behind mine I can see ploughing matches as we have known them have very few more years to run. The young have other interests, the younger generation of farmers have little interest in supporting us and the whole thing will fade away. There will be no national organisation representing vintage ploughmen , just a few local matches raising money for charity.
With regard to my last comment, the SOP are trying very hard to advertise the fact that they are no longer worthy of support. This requires no input from me as they are experts at shooting themselves in the foot as you rightly point out.
 

ploughman61

Member
Mixed Farmer
There is space for a viable alternative and I have put forward suggestions and offered help on a regional basis. At the age of 73 any major input is ten years too late I am afraid and as the average age of participants is probably not far behind mine I can see ploughing matches as we have known them have very few more years to run. The young have other interests, the younger generation of farmers have little interest in supporting us and the whole thing will fade away. There will be no national organisation representing vintage ploughmen , just a few local matches raising money for charity.
With regard to my last comment, the SOP are trying very hard to advertise the fact that they are no longer worthy of support. This requires no input from me as they are experts at shooting themselves in the foot as you rightly point out.
Ok gentlemen it's time to put up or shut up and grasp the bull by the horns. I suggest that we organise a meeting to form a new society for vintage and classic ploughing, everything except world and European reversible. I propose to hold the meeting at Stafford showground in the second week of May, its central for everybody, and date is long enough away to let everybody know about it. So come on now you have a chance to meet and form a new organising committee.
 

Sprayer

Member
Location
South Derbyshire
There are great debates in fact it gets quite heated and personal at times about the way the society is run and the members need to sort all this out before the society implodes. Someone has already remarked on loss of members, every ploughman should be a member and have a chance to say what happens and the society needs to take this on board. A lot of the current “active working” members are getting older and need support from younger people. To survive the society needs to be accountable, transparent, approachable, affordable, sustainable and above all be democratic.

I sit firmly on the fence at the moment.

I stated the above 2 years ago and really nothing has changed for the better in my very humble opinion.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
There are great debates in fact it gets quite heated and personal at times about the way the society is run and the members need to sort all this out before the society implodes. Someone has already remarked on loss of members, every ploughman should be a member and have a chance to say what happens and the society needs to take this on board. A lot of the current “active working” members are getting older and need support from younger people. To survive the society needs to be accountable, transparent, approachable, affordable, sustainable and above all be democratic.

I sit firmly on the fence at the moment.

I stated the above 2 years ago and really nothing has changed for the better in my very humble opinion.
You were an optimist and gave them a chance as did many others. They blew it and then gold plated it just to make sure that everyone understood that there will be no change. Now is the time to start afresh.:cautious:
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Ok gentlemen it's time to put up or shut up and grasp the bull by the horns. I suggest that we organise a meeting to form a new society for vintage and classic ploughing, everything except world and European reversible. I propose to hold the meeting at Stafford showground in the second week of May, its central for everybody, and date is long enough away to let everybody know about it. So come on now you have a chance to meet and form a new organising committee.
I concur, but please keep it open for all, if you start divided, you will fall, nothing new can happen as its all regressive. Remember forty years or so ago thats how things were, and vintage had to beg to get into a normal match. I wish you well, though I am saddened by the situation which has forced this.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
I concur, but please keep it open for all, if you start divided, you will fall, nothing new can happen as its all regressive. Remember forty years or so ago thats how things were, and vintage had to beg to get into a normal match. I wish you well, though I am saddened by the situation which has forced this.
Harry, I think you must realise that this is for the vintage classes or perhaps more correctly age related classes plus perhaps manufacturers classes. World style has an organisation at the moment but should it fail its members they could perhaps make approaches at a later date. There is no point in forming a new association in order to allow the old one to run the show.
 

Somerset28

New Member
There is space for a viable alternative and I have put forward suggestions and offered help on a regional basis. At the age of 73 any major input is ten years too late I am afraid and as the average age of participants is probably not far behind mine I can see ploughing matches as we have known them have very few more years to run. The young have other interests, the younger generation of farmers have little interest in supporting us and the whole thing will fade away. There will be no national organisation representing vintage ploughmen , just a few local matches raising money for charity.
With regard to my last comment, the SOP are trying very hard to advertise the fact that they are no longer worthy of support. This requires no input from me as they are experts at shooting themselves in the foot as you rightly point out.

There is space for a viable alternative and I have put forward suggestions and offered help on a regional basis. At the age of 73 any major input is ten years too late I am afraid and as the average age of participants is probably not far behind mine I can see ploughing matches as we have known them have very few more years to run. The young have other interests, the younger generation of farmers have little interest in supporting us and the whole thing will fade away. There will be no national organisation representing vintage ploughmen , just a few local matches raising money for charity.
With regard to my last comment, the SOP are trying very hard to advertise the fact that they are no longer worthy of support. This requires no input from me as they are experts at shooting themselves in the foot as you rightly point out.
I am coming into this mid discussion without alot of knowledge of the full situation - however I do want to pick up on something you've said. You mention the younger generation have other interests, that may be due to possibly finding hurdles being placed in front of them to be part of the Vintage Ploughing community. My now 15 year old daughter has been Ploughing for the last 2 years now, and I can assure you the first season was a complete nightmare arguing with different Committee's who would try to make it very difficult to take part in the Matches. Even to point of arguing that the NFU Insurance Policy was incorrect. So given that is it any wonder youngsters struggle to get involved? We are OK now, other than one Committee - but all the others are open to the small group of U16's in our area. But what is being done to encourage the youngsters??? Everyone complains there aren't many around, but who is actively seeking younger competitors??
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
I am coming into this mid discussion without alot of knowledge of the full situation - however I do want to pick up on something you've said. You mention the younger generation have other interests, that may be due to possibly finding hurdles being placed in front of them to be part of the Vintage Ploughing community. My now 15 year old daughter has been Ploughing for the last 2 years now, and I can assure you the first season was a complete nightmare arguing with different Committee's who would try to make it very difficult to take part in the Matches. Even to point of arguing that the NFU Insurance Policy was incorrect. So given that is it any wonder youngsters struggle to get involved? We are OK now, other than one Committee - but all the others are open to the small group of U16's in our area. But what is being done to encourage the youngsters??? Everyone complains there aren't many around, but who is actively seeking younger competitors??
I cannot comment on your local situation but I try to encourage youngsters. This year I gave a junior and ladies trophy at my match and received one entry for each. It doesn't matter because it is an investment for the future but the entry fee did not cover the cost of the trophy. Match insurance is quite expensive and we have to jump through hoops to get even basic insurance. Should there be a claim the legal bods could drive a horse and cart through some of the declaration we have to make. Health and safety is important but we are now screwed by the blame culture that pervades society. Sorry to sound so negative but I am prepared to stick my neck out. Many others are not.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
I am coming into this mid discussion without alot of knowledge of the full situation - however I do want to pick up on something you've said. You mention the younger generation have other interests, that may be due to possibly finding hurdles being placed in front of them to be part of the Vintage Ploughing community. My now 15 year old daughter has been Ploughing for the last 2 years now, and I can assure you the first season was a complete nightmare arguing with different Committee's who would try to make it very difficult to take part in the Matches. Even to point of arguing that the NFU Insurance Policy was incorrect. So given that is it any wonder youngsters struggle to get involved? We are OK now, other than one Committee - but all the others are open to the small group of U16's in our area. But what is being done to encourage the youngsters??? Everyone complains there aren't many around, but who is actively seeking younger competitors??
As Bob says, it is the blame culture that is at the root of your problems, at York, the yfc plots had to be roped off in order for Ellie Bullard to plough, due to her age. NFU dont help, as they include public liability in their vintage policy, where as others issue a separate certificate , this gives backside protecting committees wriggle room!
For myself, I will help and advise anyone who asks, I cant, however provide a field! Your question has provoked thought, and I am wondering if yesterdays farming could be persuaded to hold a training day as well as their match, I will suggest it, but the attitude of some of the "tractor drivers" there who have no ploughing interest may make it impossible.
 

Somerset28

New Member
I cannot comment on your local situation but I try to encourage youngsters. This year I gave a junior and ladies trophy at my match and received one entry for each. It doesn't matter because it is an investment for the future but the entry fee did not cover the cost of the trophy. Match insurance is quite expensive and we have to jump through hoops to get even basic insurance. Should there be a claim the legal bods could drive a horse and cart through some of the declaration we have to make. Health and safety is important but we are now screwed by the blame culture that pervades society. Sorry to sound so negative but I am prepared to stick my neck out. Many others are not.
Thank you for your reply, and I have to be honest that is not a perspective I had thought about it from. I do understand what you said though, and that's quite sad that rising Insurance costs may be the reasons why some Committee's may end up folding.
 

Somerset28

New Member
As Bob says, it is the blame culture that is at the root of your problems, at York, the yfc plots had to be roped off in order for Ellie Bullard to plough, due to her age. NFU dont help, as they include public liability in their vintage policy, where as others issue a separate certificate , this gives backside protecting committees wriggle room!
For myself, I will help and advise anyone who asks, I cant, however provide a field! Your question has provoked thought, and I am wondering if yesterdays farming could be persuaded to hold a training day as well as their match, I will suggest it, but the attitude of some of the "tractor drivers" there who have no ploughing interest may make it impossible.
It was Ellie I used to quote as an example of an U16 competing at the National a couple years ago.
Sounds about right about wriggle room being used by some Committee's!
We are actually intending to help more this year with the marking out for Yesterday's Farming, so perhaps that could be brought up at a meeting soon?
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Harry, I think you must realise that this is for the vintage classes or perhaps more correctly age related classes plus perhaps manufacturers classes. World style has an organisation at the moment but should it fail its members they could perhaps make approaches at a later date. There is no point in forming a new association in order to allow the old one to run the show.
I dont see the old one running the show, any ploughmen in a new society would be unlikely to be welcome in, or be members of the other. However, if the door is left open, there can be no "them and us " wail! I also dont feel its a good idea to cut your selves off from a potential income source, every entry fee helps.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
It was Ellie I used to quote as an example of an U16 competing at the National a couple years ago.
Sounds about right about wriggle room being used by some Committee's!
We are actually intending to help more this year with the marking out for Yesterday's Farming, so perhaps that could be brought up at a meeting soon?
Your much closer to Mike than I am , so perhaps you could take the idea forward, I will if required be available to instruct.
 

wuddy

Member
Location
Scottish Borders
I am coming into this mid discussion without alot of knowledge of the full situation - however I do want to pick up on something you've said. You mention the younger generation have other interests, that may be due to possibly finding hurdles being placed in front of them to be part of the Vintage Ploughing community. My now 15 year old daughter has been Ploughing for the last 2 years now, and I can assure you the first season was a complete nightmare arguing with different Committee's who would try to make it very difficult to take part in the Matches. Even to point of arguing that the NFU Insurance Policy was incorrect. So given that is it any wonder youngsters struggle to get involved? We are OK now, other than one Committee - but all the others are open to the small group of U16's in our area. But what is being done to encourage the youngsters??? Everyone complains there aren't many around, but who is actively seeking younger competitors??
Up here the Scottish ploughing Championships run a young plougher development scheme where 1 young plougher is selected from each of the five areas. This plougher is set up with a mentor prior to the Championships and gets there travel expenses (up to a certain amount iirc). Classes are held for junior world style conventional/reversible and junior vintage and classic. All being done to hopefully help and encourage young ploughers!
 

Somerset28

New Member
Your much closer to Mike than I am , so perhaps you could take the idea forward, I will if required be available to instruct.
Yes sure - I'll get hold of him and put the idea to him .I suppose it would also depend on how much land Dillington can offer, and whether the thrashers will be displayed again this year.
 

Somerset28

New Member
Up here the Scottish ploughing Championships run a young plougher development scheme where 1 young plougher is selected from each of the five areas. This plougher is set up with a mentor prior to the Championships and gets there travel expenses (up to a certain amount iirc). Classes are held for junior world style conventional/reversible and junior vintage and classic. All being done to hopefully help and encourage young ploughers!
That is absolutely brilliant, and is exactly what should be happening all over the Country.
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
I am coming into this mid discussion without alot of knowledge of the full situation - however I do want to pick up on something you've said. You mention the younger generation have other interests, that may be due to possibly finding hurdles being placed in front of them to be part of the Vintage Ploughing community. My now 15 year old daughter has been Ploughing for the last 2 years now, and I can assure you the first season was a complete nightmare arguing with different Committee's who would try to make it very difficult to take part in the Matches. Even to point of arguing that the NFU Insurance Policy was incorrect. So given that is it any wonder youngsters struggle to get involved? We are OK now, other than one Committee - but all the others are open to the small group of U16's in our area. But what is being done to encourage the youngsters??? Everyone complains there aren't many around, but who is actively seeking younger competitors??

Sorry to hear of your negative experiences. Up here at Scarcroft we opened up to youngsters as soon as they started asking to come - provided the right insurance was in place.
Getting youngsters involved, whilst on the face of it a seemingly simple concept, is an uphill task. Youngsters used to come as younger relatives of older established ploughmen. These younger relatives seem to be fewer nowadays. It’s fine where they inherit kit but cost prohibitive if they have it to find.

Some of the older novices do not like to be beaten by youngster which does not help. There are however a good number of willing and capable ploughmen out there who can always be relied on to help. Keep looking and you are bound to come across us somewhere.

These pages are always a good source of information and help.
 

rusty nuts

Member
If a new ploughing group is formed for vintage i hope that they have a new set of rules . If they have there own national match you would get a site very easy because you would only need about 100 acres with no demonstrators taking up the best land .Dont look at the sop match look at the sherwood match there are more ploughmen on the day than the national with less hangers on as well. It is run by a small group and with a lot lot lot less expence .Just think on this you dont need money to run a ploughing match just a good site and good keen ploughmen. And if its in lincolnshire John Plowright.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
It is my belief that without careful nurturing the vintage classes will shortly disappear. Trailer ploughs are already. This is due, in the main to their being populated by people, like myself( though I now plough world style) who used to use this kit, and, using it again now, takes them back to a much kinder age. Modern youth does not have this attraction or mind set, or it seems,the required pride in a job well done, only how fast they can do it. There will be a few, who will are for granddads tractor and take it out now and again. That however wont be often, unlike a vintage car, for example, they have to find a field, the car just turns out of the drive onto a road.
 

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