Cover forage subsoiling crop.

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Which is the best option to sow any time from now till summer on heavy land to suck the water out, put down deep massive root mass, and provide something for the sheep to nag on from late autumn throng the winter????

Kale? Forage rape? Stubble turnips? Or a fancy mix?

Will Paraplow to bust the pan, power Harrow to level some ruts, then drill it.

Thanks.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Are you looking for more of a single species or a mix - most species with big deep roots have them more for dry condition survival.

In any case, radish would be a good choice in a mix but I have never grazed it or grown any but @JD-Kid has I think.

I would definitely go with a mix, some bulky stuff that will use up a lot of moisture to grow, some deep rooting stuff to help with the subsoiling effort, and probably some legume to provide a bit of N for soil and stock.

Probably tillage radish, peas, cereals, and brassicas; depends on what you want to spend on seed, really... some of the cover crop mixes you see used in the world make the mind boggle in terms of diversity, but then they achieve great results so....
 

JD-Kid

Member
radish can have a prob of growing up and out than in and down if the soils hard
newer smart radish is ment to be better but don't think seeds about yet

rapes kales etc will have a big root system
oats same thing

appin turnips are ment to lock in to the ground

a bit of a worry is the time frame you are talking about with it being a longer time i would say for feed value to still be good it would only realy lead to kales to hold on so long maybe longer growing turnips sweads etc mixed in ....oats maybe ok in the mix but would be straw by the time you want to graze

if grazed before hand i would come back to appins ,pasja , rapes with a good regrowth ,oats ,maybe crimson clover, annual ryegrass , sorgam if day temps higher
 

Kevtherev

Member
Location
Welshpool Powys
IMG_8651.JPG

Tillage radish showing the root depth
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
A low cost brassica mix would suit, Hybrid Kale, Mustard, Stubble Turnip & Green Globe turnip. Quick growth with excellent ground cover would be great for drying wet land.

Tillage/Daikon Radish although a great pan buster I've found not to be that palatable to sheep, when the leaves break down they release a pungent smell & I wonder if this has something to do with it
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
A low cost brassica mix would suit, Hybrid Kale, Mustard, Stubble Turnip & Green Globe turnip. Quick growth with excellent ground cover would be great for drying wet land.

Tillage/Daikon Radish although a great pan buster I've found not to be that palatable to sheep, when the leaves break down they release a pungent smell & I wonder if this has something to do with it
I am on quite a few cover cropping FB groups and farmers believe it is that same sulphury pungent smell - cultivars like that smart radish @JD-Kid referred to will transform this type of grazing crop, IMO

I would likely put some in @DrWazzock even if they don't go near it it will be the equilalent of having a giant Kiwi probe into your compaction layer, even just a smidge with few other things for sheep. Cattle apparently don't mind it so much.

Just think, once the EU is but a memory, you will be able to grow these massive 20 species cover crops a lot more cheaply, it is possibly one of those sad side effects of reductionist thinking, the way your seed laws are..

Never be scared to sow "the wrong plants"
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
I am on quite a few cover cropping FB groups and farmers believe it is that same sulphury pungent smell - cultivars like that smart radish @JD-Kid referred to will transform this type of grazing crop, IMO

I would likely put some in @DrWazzock even if they don't go near it it will be the equilalent of having a giant Kiwi probe into your compaction layer, even just a smidge with few other things for sheep. Cattle apparently don't mind it so much.

Just think, once the EU is but a memory, you will be able to grow these massive 20 species cover crops a lot more cheaply, it is possibly one of those sad side effects of reductionist thinking, the way your seed laws are..

Never be scared to sow "the wrong plants"
One of my suppliers is trialling Smart Radish & seed should be available next year, however it doesn't do everything here that's it's claimed to do in NZ but for the life of I can't remember what! :rolleyes: I'll need to speak to them again for an update
 

JD-Kid

Member
One of my suppliers is trialling Smart Radish & seed should be available next year, however it doesn't do everything here that's it's claimed to do in NZ but for the life of I can't remember what! :rolleyes: I'll need to speak to them again for an update
ment to have more sideways roots locking the bulb deeper in the the ground so not growing out but down if that makes sence also a higher leaf growth
 

JD-Kid

Member
I am on quite a few cover cropping FB groups and farmers believe it is that same sulphury pungent smell - cultivars like that smart radish @JD-Kid referred to will transform this type of grazing crop, IMO

I would likely put some in @DrWazzock even if they don't go near it it will be the equilalent of having a giant Kiwi probe into your compaction layer, even just a smidge with few other things for sheep. Cattle apparently don't mind it so much.

Just think, once the EU is but a memory, you will be able to grow these massive 20 species cover crops a lot more cheaply, it is possibly one of those sad side effects of reductionist thinking, the way your seed laws are..

Never be scared to sow "the wrong plants"
there is alot of learning of plants and there growths etc some of the mad mixes are a bit over the top in my views
not aot of point saveing the world if you go broke trying to do it diffrent plants do diffrent things at diffrent times it's knowing how to make a return on the plants that best fit the system
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
there is alot of learning of plants and there growths etc some of the mad mixes are a bit over the top in my views
not aot of point saveing the world if you go broke trying to do it diffrent plants do diffrent things at diffrent times it's knowing how to make a return on the plants that best fit the system
Yeah, that is true, it is probably just as easy to spend that money on extra animal health sh!t at the vets, all the same.
I can afford a lot of seed with what I save on drenching and injecting and all the other "essentials of farming", whereas a grand at the vet will not feed my stock or soil at all.

Having seen the prices of overseas inputs, think I would just go into voluntary receivership and save the heartache, bit different if they have bags of seed leftover from other covercropping to justify costs; especially with a holistic view of what those costs will save in other areas of the farming operation.

Probably too much "plant" is seen solely as "food" which is why we find ourselves stretched thinly in terms of profit margins - we have drugs fixing the holes in their diet, and machines fixing the holes in farming - what a hippy way of looking at it :censored:
 

JD-Kid

Member
Yeah, that is true, it is probably just as easy to spend that money on extra animal health sh!t at the vets, all the same.
I can afford a lot of seed with what I save on drenching and injecting and all the other "essentials of farming", whereas a grand at the vet will not feed my stock or soil at all.

Having seen the prices of overseas inputs, think I would just go into voluntary receivership and save the heartache, bit different if they have bags of seed leftover from other covercropping to justify costs; especially with a holistic view of what those costs will save in other areas of the farming operation.

Probably too much "plant" is seen solely as "food" which is why we find ourselves stretched thinly in terms of profit margins - we have drugs fixing the holes in their diet, and machines fixing the holes in farming - what a hippy way of looking at it :censored:
i'm a bit green and leafy looking at things too at times
don't buy in to the rye and white mixes for paddocks
we are trying to lower fert and drug costs as much as we can and grow better foods if we could just break the code to get clover to fix N it would save us 1000's a year but just no answers on how to fix prob
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
If you're doing it now and leaving it until next spring,I'd sow a one year grass. Westerwold or IRG. Then when the weather takes up in the summer, you'll have some nice silage and the aftermath for the sheep
simplest thing to do ...^

also just for a laugh scoop a few oats out of the grainstore and mix in with the grass seed as well ... but you would need to cut or graze it off once at least through the summer.

suprisingly good for ewes and lambs or lambs after weaning ...is :eek: grazing oats when they are in ear ...well before they sceness anyway, use a strip fence so as not spoil the whole field and cut if it gets away from them...(y)
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
'course the irg roots wont go down too far but maybe we will have a dry summer that will send some nice cracks down thru....(y)
but i 'spect someone will point out, in a minute ....that, that will most likely be caused by some mineral diffeiciancy....(n)
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yes no real hope if the water can't get away.
As for a deep rooting crop to fight compaction as per the OP?
I would say a short term ryegrass ley is possibly the best possible pathway to create compaction, but hey ho.

Sounds like it really wants grassed down and grazed for a good term for a rest, with a few deep rooted herbs and timothy, something that isn't going to want the bag too much.
Nothing really worse for soil structure than soluble N, but no doubt that it grows the grass.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Reading the original post is there an underlying drainage problem that needs sorting out first @DrWazzock
No point throwing Seeds on if it’s going to have its feet wet all the time

There is a bit of a problem with drains under the clay. They have filled with sand that is over them further up the field. I have cleared one that was blowing. The others aren't blowing but are slow so I will be digging down to them and jetting them also.

Kale / turnip mix looks a good one.

I'd go for radish as well @Kiwi Pete but not sure we can get such effective varieties over here.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I don't think we get many varieties here yet but demand is a likely reason, farmers have always tended to think like... well, farmers! :LOL: as in "just grow food" and it took a while for that logic to properly break down.
There is a lot more to ecology and landscape than seas of food - sometimes it will take decades for the cracks to show because we aren't looking for them - the Jena Experiment makes for interesting research as to the role of docks and dandelions in an ecosystem, if you're interested.
 

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