Multiple C Sections
- Thread starter Blaithin
- Start date
- Location
- Somerset
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Our vet's comment was around 20 years ago. He had personal experience of such practices in pedigree BB herds abroad, hence the description. I was not setting out to knock the BB breed, just pointing out that that particular approach to an breed did not sit comfortably with my personal ethics.
@Blaithin asked whether multiple c sections were possible and what implications there were. Answering that was my intention. I will not contribute to this thread further now.
This is a touchy subject ethically obviously and my personal opinion is that I would not breed from a cow again after a Caesarean, although I suspect most vets would have a go at a second or even more if they had no choice. I certainly know a few women who have had two children born that way.
However the thing that interest me most is the cost - the contributor from Belgium said 90€? I'm sure that vets in Belgium have become very skilled and quick at the operation through practice, but that seems a very small fee for what is quite a challenging procedure and quite hard work. Even £400 is probably much less than many small animal practices would charge for a Caesar on a dog, which is less hard work physically in the more pleasant environment of a nice warm clean operating theatre. Why is this I wonder? If vets charged £1000 per procedure, I think people contemplating an elective operation might think again.
However the thing that interest me most is the cost - the contributor from Belgium said 90€? I'm sure that vets in Belgium have become very skilled and quick at the operation through practice, but that seems a very small fee for what is quite a challenging procedure and quite hard work. Even £400 is probably much less than many small animal practices would charge for a Caesar on a dog, which is less hard work physically in the more pleasant environment of a nice warm clean operating theatre. Why is this I wonder? If vets charged £1000 per procedure, I think people contemplating an elective operation might think again.
GenuineRisk
Member
- Location
- Somerset
I think it’s fair to say there’s a difference in procedure and even protocols between an emergency section on an uncooperative cow in a shed with no crush, perhaps, who hasn’t been watched like a hawk because, understandably, that’s not the herd practice. Our sections, as I’vehave yawningly explained on previous threads, are usually but not always on recips. That said three out of five recips calved naturally this year already. I’ve had a section myself, using near enough exactly the same procedure ie epidural, local, cut, baby out, sewn up, painkillers and a/bs up and about and out the hospital door. All ours start to calve naturally, we usually get them out the back but not always and we have the right kit, the right vets and the experience to ensure it’s as stress free as we can make it. They are all under CCTV at all times before calving so we are in a controlled situation. The mums don’t throw themselves about or lose the plot.
So very different to a wilder cow who may have been in labour for hours before being spotted and treated. That is not a criticism btw if you aren’t expecting problems then fair enough you will not be happy to have to deal with a section and would be extremely anti.
As to coat, £350 all in is our cost and because they are reasonably high value cattle, it makes economic sense to us but we don’t go looking for sections! Even though I know that statement doesn’t make good press for some.
So very different to a wilder cow who may have been in labour for hours before being spotted and treated. That is not a criticism btw if you aren’t expecting problems then fair enough you will not be happy to have to deal with a section and would be extremely anti.
As to coat, £350 all in is our cost and because they are reasonably high value cattle, it makes economic sense to us but we don’t go looking for sections! Even though I know that statement doesn’t make good press for some.
Don't blame you if she wants to let her carry on,
GenuineRisk
Member
- Location
- Somerset
I am NOT going to post names on here
Good call, was always told if you’re in a hole, best to stop digging. Maybe you did learn from your FB postings the other day.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Im not getting into who is right or wrong but its clear for all to see genuine risk that you have broke forum rules by naming someone and if that wasn't bad enough you then tried to claim it was another poster who put the name on TFF.
I think it might be a good idea if @Clive asks a Mod to take a look at some of the posts on this thread.
GenuineRisk
Member
- Location
- Somerset
Sorry you’ve lost me - who is it I’ve named?
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
I've taken a look through this thread a couple of times now and after @Clive suggested I did
The forum rules make mention of not posting aggressive or antagonistic posts.
The thread is about a contentious subject and I can see why folks make statements because they don't agree with breeds or breeders who permit multiple c-sections as routine practice. I can also see that breeders are entitled to state their breed and breeding programme case.
In both cases the discussion can be objective and without direct insult or name calling
I have decided not to edit or moderate any posts to date. It would be better if posters refrained from using other TFFers names and just tagged their handle in although it hasn't broken any rules per se, many regulars would know the three poster's first names as I'm sure they have been stated before.
I think if things are made mention on Facebook or other media, it would be better for all concerned if those spats were kept out of TFF.
I would remind everyone that they post as individual members and should at all times be mindful that statements on here should be fair, truthful and the poster be prepared to stand by their comments if legally challenged.
Now I have posted as a moderator, I will continue to monitor this thread on watch and feel that I should not now post my own personal view on the subject in hand
GenuineRisk
Member
- Location
- Somerset
I’ve had my say on this but as a forum, you need to be extremely careful about what you post if making absolute statements about herds or breeds that may not be true. If you don’t delete potentially libellous posts, the forum owners are just as liable.
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Maybe I'm missing something . PM me the link to anything potentially libellous and I'll revisit it
Northeastfarmer
Member
- Location
- Cleveland
I can’t see owt libelellous....just a mention of a herd down south....knickers in a knot spring to mind
M-J-G
Member
Quite an amusing insight
I didn't see anyone being named.
I did see what may have been someone using someone else's account to make a post to support themselves though.
The clue is in the commas
I didn't see anyone being named.
I did see what may have been someone using someone else's account to make a post to support themselves though.
The clue is in the commas
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Quite an amusing insight
I didn't see anyone being named.
I did see what may have been someone using someone else's account to make a post to support themselves though.
The clue is in the commas
A name was defo given by GR in suggestion of who owns the Lim herd of cows that may or may not have a lot of C sections, she then tagged this person in a post.
Not sure what is going on with GR and FC but imo they ought to make the most of this fab weather and meet up in the local pub beer garden one evening for a glass of wine and talk thru their differences as this thread has got a shade out of hand on both sides.
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
When I read the thread (three times) there were no third party names mentioned only the first names of Henraar, Genuine Risk and Farmer Clare
I also looked at one self deleted post and no names in that either. I assume if names were mentioned they were edited out - as they should have been
M-J-G
Member
I still can't see that, unless you mean the BB brigade referring to each other on first name terms?
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
I think GR has edited her post since she put it up.
Both GR and FC need to take a look at a very touching thread in the Pics and Videos section on here called : A very fitting tribute... and then perhaps they will realize that life is far too short for the differences they clearly have with each other!