- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
It appears my figures were slightly wrong, 50% not 45%. I have heard some major implement manufacturers (not trailers) are fitting air as standard so it’s going that way allready.
Trailer Test
- Thread starter Fred
- Start date
It appears my figures were slightly wrong, 50% not 45%. I have heard some major implement manufacturers (not trailers) are fitting air as standard so it’s going that way allready.
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
The other good thing is that they're mandating load-sensing valves for both oil or air.
I agree that air would seem the simpler, cheaper, already established choice over dual-line hydraulic.
- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
As long as it’s removed from a trailer in a safe way, it’s perfectly acceptable to remove oil brakes.
Eg remove the hydraulic line that goes to the tractor and blank it off so they cannot be connected.
Don’t just fit a quarter turn tap in the line and hide the coupling so someone unsuspecting can use them again.
(Common sense really).
- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
Try using a 50% efficient trailer empty without load sensing. You’ll get through some tyres! Having said that if it wasn’t mandatory, however sensible, some people wouldn’t fit it.
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
Are
Will trailers under the mother regs be tested or will it be a self certification exercise? Eg its 25% now but some new trailers won’t meet it as there is no policing.
Yes
Will trailers under the mother regs be tested or will it be a self certification exercise? Eg its 25% now but some new trailers won’t meet it as there is no policing.
- Location
- Darlington
VOSA do check brake adjustment you can have a trailer fail if the actuators are at different lengths even if the brakes are correctly adjusted. Agree they don't measure brake wear.
The most essential part in all this is operator training. Whatever is done you can't beat training and experience, be that knowing what to look for in your walk around checks or 'feeling' the brakes/handling before you get into a situation where they will be tested.
Last edited:
- Location
- Bedfordshire
Clive - A Tilly test will take the drums off. I'm not sure that will be one of your daily checks.
Renaultman - I will stand corrected, but I spoke to a mechanic who does the BAGMA test, and I have had it done on my grain trailers for the past 3 years by another ag engineer, and they do NOT check the brake adjustment/lining wear, only check the %efficiency. They don't even take a glance under the trailer.
As I have previously said: to cover yourself properly you need a Tilly test, a VOSA or BAGMA efficiency test AND a thorough daily inspection by the driver.
As I have also previously said, for those like Clive who are thorough in their maintenance, have qualified mechanics, and keep a paper trail then don't do a Tilly. That's fine. But not everybody is as conscientious, hence the accidents, and hence the need for a test/publicity/education of the issue.
Renaultman - I will stand corrected, but I spoke to a mechanic who does the BAGMA test, and I have had it done on my grain trailers for the past 3 years by another ag engineer, and they do NOT check the brake adjustment/lining wear, only check the %efficiency. They don't even take a glance under the trailer.
As I have previously said: to cover yourself properly you need a Tilly test, a VOSA or BAGMA efficiency test AND a thorough daily inspection by the driver.
As I have also previously said, for those like Clive who are thorough in their maintenance, have qualified mechanics, and keep a paper trail then don't do a Tilly. That's fine. But not everybody is as conscientious, hence the accidents, and hence the need for a test/publicity/education of the issue.
- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
Thats what everyone is saying.
So why does Tilly not include a brake test?
When a BAGMA or rolling road test is passed, at that instant there is definitive proof that the brakes are safe and legal.
When a Tilly test is passed, everything is correctly maintained but may still be unsafe.
You need both, so why are they not doing both?
Would it have anything to do with the fact Andy Scarlett was heavily involved in developing the BAGMA test and does the training etc, amd the recent court case?
Last edited:
- Location
- Darlington
@snarling bee My experience with VOSA is strictly LGV (what was HGV) and the trailers are tested over a pit, I have had trailers issued a GV9 for actuators not at the same length so know this is true,
I did say that points10 and 11 (drums off) in the tilly test were the only things on their list that were not on our daily check list that all operators should do DAILY before taking a trailer on the road
We do a documeneted drum off pre season however like the tilly test
where they fall short (big time) is they don't do any actual brake test and that has been the point of the critical comments from me and others on this thread
Trailer testing can only be a good thing but you can't polish a turd.
We a have a 10t marston on 6 stud axles, have had drums off, new shoes and all adjusted up correctly, the trailer will lock up empty but not a hope carrying 10t.
12t on full commercial brake drums running on oil, plenty of braking but bit harsh on the tyres.
12t on commercial brakes air/oil/load sensing, plenty of braking and more control (the public seem annoyed when tyre smoke passes you when you stop just because the brakes are too harsh) also nice to have the air working trailer handbrake when loading trailer.
Should trailers have speed stickers in clear view on tailboard and speed limits to suit??
We a have a 10t marston on 6 stud axles, have had drums off, new shoes and all adjusted up correctly, the trailer will lock up empty but not a hope carrying 10t.
12t on full commercial brake drums running on oil, plenty of braking but bit harsh on the tyres.
12t on commercial brakes air/oil/load sensing, plenty of braking and more control (the public seem annoyed when tyre smoke passes you when you stop just because the brakes are too harsh) also nice to have the air working trailer handbrake when loading trailer.
Should trailers have speed stickers in clear view on tailboard and speed limits to suit??
dannewhouse
Member
- Location
- huddersfield
the 10t marston isn't this a case of when speed doubles you need 4x breaking efficiency?
so you have to drive to the conditions and travel at 12.5mph instead of 25 where you are likely to be breaking hard?
all this breaking but what about the trailers that are still running about that pre date brakes at all?
- Location
- Bedfordshire
One of the other considerations for trailer testing is cost. It shouldn't be, but it is. Is it better to have, say, a £200 test that 75% of the industry do, or a £350 that only 50% do?? Even if the cheaper test is not perfect.
I don't know the answer, but unless it becomes compulsory then some will never do anything.
I don't know the answer, but unless it becomes compulsory then some will never do anything.
- Location
- Bedfordshire
As an aside.
The Fastrac we have seems to have much more progressive air brakes than our John Deere, on the same trailer. Is there a problem with the JD or is it the design of the system? On the JD they are either on or off, which obviously gives lock up when empty.
The Fastrac we have seems to have much more progressive air brakes than our John Deere, on the same trailer. Is there a problem with the JD or is it the design of the system? On the JD they are either on or off, which obviously gives lock up when empty.
- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
But how much IS a Tilly test? The questions been asked several times now and never been answered.
As I said, BAGMA test is £120 per trailer if you have 3 done.
I’d rather do the Tilly test myself and have the brakes checked. It’s the ONLY way to KNOW your trailer is safe.
If anyone is not confident of doing it themselves they should go on one of Andy Scarletts courses, worth every penny.
- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
Different tractor brands use different set ups. Plug an oil pressure gauge into the brakes and progressively press the brakes.
Do the same with the oil brakes on the JCB.
Then plug an air gauge into the Yellow line on each tractor and do the same. Then watch the results.
all a nice idea but i'm sorry I think this statement is very misleading it may well have been checked and passed but it does not mean its safe when being used by the operator and as such will give a false sense of security there has to be more than a once a year check
itsalwaysme
Member
- Location
- Cheshire
I agree that it's misleading, it's no different to a vehicle MOT certificate which means that the vehicle was roadworthy at the "time of test" it is better than no test or inspection at all but not really the "answer" Also what tractor was it hitched to when it "passed" the test, what if it's now hitched to a tractor with different brake system (as in the recent accident)
Do trailers not have a service schedule from new (manufacturers recommendations) annual service etc. I know with trailers it's probably easy to think they don't do much work and are maybe only busy for a few months of the year (although this can lead to problems with corrosion etc especially if parked up in wet or dirty condition) but it would probably be quite surprising how many miles some trailers would clock up, maybe time for hubodometers
obviousy you slow down on nasty roads but No-one knows when they are likely to need to brake hard, anything can happen. My point is the commercial brakes have the same speed limit as the 6 studs and with both setup correctly you can not compare them. To encourage people to update the trailer brakes would having faster speed limits (say 50k) for commercial brakes and slow (30k) for non commercial encourage people to update quicker but not put anyone off the road? The wide variety of "commercial axles" doesn't help things