Who's at the national this year ?

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
If you read through a quite a few threads h150 and his cronies eventually hijack them for poisoning as many ploughmen as they can against the sop.They are as bad if not worse than the people they attack.
Nothing is or ever can be, perfect, particularly in a sport where there is no defined finishing post. Things could be improved but by and large the SOP is doing an acceptable job, 250 ploughmen attended the national,so they do enjoy considerable support.
Perhaps those in disagreement with the SOP could post their ideas of ,for example, new score sheets, time limits and most importantly, how they will enforce the latter
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
If you read through a quite a few threads h150 and his cronies eventually hijack them for poisoning as many ploughmen as they can against the sop.They are as bad if not worse than the people they attack.

To each his own opinion and dependent on whichever way you look at it then rightly or wrongly so.

Locally and on here- some good and varied responses - most with the benefit of experience. All you need to do is ask.
Make of it what you will but never loose sight of the fact that most of us with adverse opinion were once as you are now (‘and I know that it’s not easy’ as Cat Stevens once said). We all thought nah it can’t be that bad for a good few years before reality kicked in. By and large most punters are happy just baa baaing away as they do. It’s the winners in the top 5 - 10% plus a few others sharp enough to see through the subterfuge where the problem lies. They are the ones shafted more often than not. The fact of the matter is like it or not the SOP is not a free mans society but a family firm and that’s where the problem lies. Good capable men have petitioned for change which will never be allowed to happen.
But then you don’t need me to tell you that. You might well think I am old and embittered. I might well be old and embittered. Stand up for yoursen and make your own mind up. But don’t be surprised in a few years time if you come down on this side o’t fence.

Obviously you did not read this post. - especially this bit ‘Stand up for yoursen and make your own mind up’
Don’t hold back. Tell us your pedigree. Tell us of all the young and novice ploughmen you have steered in the right direction - you could even get one of them to post a testimonial on your behalf. Tell us when last you judged - even how many times you have judged this year. We would not think it big headed of you to tell us of all your wins - national and international, the society which you run, and in general all the good you do for ploughing, the times you have been shafted by the system or bad judges after having travelled 150 miles to qualify.

Possibly then, and only then will you have earned the right to make scathing comments!
 

wuddy

Member
Location
Scottish Borders
At the risk of being rude aren't you guys just repeating yourselves with the same old arguments and slagging matches, instead of clashing heads would it not be best to put your heads together to find a common agreeable solution to that could be suggested to the SOP in regards to all ploughing matches?

Wasn't there talk of a break away organisation? because of the discontent what happened to that plan?

In regards to score sheets Howard150 you mention World, European and Southern Ireland what do they do that is so different, what do you think the good points are that can be extracted from each and what system do they use in Northern Ireland and Scotland is their any good points in their judging system.

What does MyDexta & Woody think in regards to whatever system used in Scotland compared to the SOP?
Having not been involved with the sop other than competing at the British a few times I can only go on what people say on how it’s run. I have however been involved in the Scottish for quite a few years the system here is chairman in for two years succeeded by vice chairman and a new vice elected at agm. Committee elected each year at agm and executive committee elected from the new committee. The executive consists on two committee members from north,central and south and two extra from the area match being held in. We find this works well keeping a certain degree of consistency and new blood each year!
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
Nothing is or ever can be, perfect, particularly in a sport where there is no defined finishing post. Things could be improved but by and large the SOP is doing an acceptable job, 250 ploughmen attended the national,so they do enjoy considerable support.
Perhaps those in disagreement with the SOP could post their ideas of ,for example, new score sheets, time limits and most importantly, how they will enforce the latter

The crux of the matter is Harry that what we do is not first past the post. It is a personal opinion given rightly or wrongly. It is by virtue of its own nature open to abuse and has been since time immemorial. One of the main problems on our area is that over the last decade skill level has increased markedly, unfortunately leaving many of the older end judges way out of their depth when it comes to getting it right.
With regard to the scoresheet we have our own with straightness split into 4 categories which makes it much easier to use. It has been very well accepted by all who have used it.
 

IH574

Member
To each his own opinion and dependent on whichever way you look at it then rightly or wrongly so.



Obviously you did not read this post. - especially this bit ‘Stand up for yoursen and make your own mind up’
Don’t hold back. Tell us your pedigree. Tell us of all the young and novice ploughmen you have steered in the right direction - you could even get one of them to post a testimonial on your behalf. Tell us when last you judged - even how many times you have judged this year. We would not think it big headed of you to tell us of all your wins - national and international, the society which you run, and in general all the good you do for ploughing, the times you have been shafted by the system or bad judges after having travelled 150 miles to qualify.

Possibly then, and only then will you have earned the right to make scathing comments!
If you read back through your comments in the past you should be able to deduce that your opinions are the only ones that matter. I ploughed for 45 years with a reasonable amount of of success. When I judge anyone can approach me and ask any questions. I don't agree with everything the sop do, but I don't go round poisoning people against them just because it doesn't suit me. Teddys and pram spring to mind. Have you ever asked yourself how many new ploughmen you have put off going any further because of your aggressive posts?
 
Last edited:

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
It's a shame on here so many anti society people and keyboard warriors get so much attention in reality they have more against the fact there are people out there who are better at a ploughing than themselves and want the goalposts changed down to their level of ploughing its nationwide now.
the ones that give ploughing 100% dedication and come out on top always have bad said about them regardless of the hard work they put in yes we have good bad judges you get this in every claas the only way to out this is to plough the perfect plot then you have another problem lower performing ploughmen who can't or won't better themselves move class or give up and spread hatred for the ones doing good. In the world European or five nations a plot is never the same there are so many variables that a ploughmen cannot prepare for however good he she is fact, the last thing they need is keyboard warriors making them feel bad about their efforts these people on here that think the national can run like a local match are stupid you can organise a local match in a couple weeks the national no.
Irvine Jenkins and ploughwright tried to start another organisation away from society and it failed because of the same negatively between people just remember that.
As a conclusion to this and wanting to get peter alderslade and david Chappell to bring home gold at the 2019 world championships I am going to propose ploughmen 61 to be coach for the team and wish him every success

Sorry but you are quite categorically wrong in your assertion that 5 Directors (now deposed) tried to start another organisation. They did not, nor did anybody else at that time. It would help if you got your facts right.
Laughable in the extreme that you propose ploughman 61 for England coach, him being the guy who proposed starting a new society earlier this year. Perhaps you missed his contribution to this thread?
Could well end up with egg on your face decrying other people’s ploughing skills. Laughable that you accuse people of trying to bring the standard down to their level , obviously blissfully unaware of who you are talking to or about. I can see we would need to be up and out pretty damn early to catch you Boysie!
 

IH574

Member
It's a shame on here so many anti society people and keyboard warriors get so much attention in reality they have more against the fact there are people out there who are better at a ploughing than themselves and want the goalposts changed down to their level of ploughing its nationwide now.
the ones that give ploughing 100% dedication and come out on top always have bad said about them regardless of the hard work they put in yes we have good bad judges you get this in every claas the only way to out this is to plough the perfect plot then you have another problem lower performing ploughmen who can't or won't better themselves move class or give up and spread hatred for the ones doing good. In the world European or five nations a plot is never the same there are so many variables that a ploughmen cannot prepare for however good he she is fact, the last thing they need is keyboard warriors making them feel bad about their efforts these people on here that think the national can run like a local match are stupid you can organise a local match in a couple weeks the national no.
Irvine Jenkins and ploughwright tried to start another organisation away from society and it failed because of the same negatively between people just remember that.
As a conclusion to this and wanting to get peter alderslade and david Chappell to bring home gold at the 2019 world championships I am going to propose ploughmen 61 to be coach for the team and wish him every success
Once a thread has been hijacked could you please refrain from telling the truth. The best form to use is bull#@% t, as Howard 150s name suggests it's what he likes to spread.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
The crux of the matter is Harry that what we do is not first past the post. It is a personal opinion given rightly or wrongly. It is by virtue of its own nature open to abuse and has been since time immemorial. One of the main problems on our area is that over the last decade skill level has increased markedly, unfortunately leaving many of the older end judges way out of their depth when it comes to getting it right.
With regard to the scoresheet we have our own with straightness split into 4 categories which makes it much easier to use. It has been very well accepted by all who have used it.
Quite right David, now, how do we get the judges to use the same glasses. I see no point in using straightness as a separate discipline, something is either straight or not, and in any case it should come into consideration when viewing other disciplines, finish, start etc.
Skill and tech levels have shot up here as well, so much so that judges who have not done at least one seminar, have no idea whatsoever as to what they should be looking for. As many ploughmen do know, and plough to the tech requirements, this results in really poor work being awarded prizes, and skilled men being left high and dry, and of course, angry.
As you say, the day of the elderly local land owner being called in to judge is over, how we encourage societies to recognise this is however a problem, but until trained judges are a requirement, angst will grow, forums like this will find people at each others throats, none of which is doing any good at all.
One thing that would help would be the affiliated societies undertaking to use Seminar educated judges at their matches at least for qualifiers, perhaps as one of a pair on each class. This would make those who have made the effort to attend instruction feel appreciated.Perhaps it would open the eyes of the co judge a little, and so spread the message.
 

Ford1957

Member
Location
Northumberland
I havent posted on here for a while because if anyone ever says anything positive about the SOP they are shot to peaces by Howard and Acrobob. Me being one of them. But now some more have had teh guts to post something and stand up to them, I would like to back them up.

Although I havent posted for a long time, i enjoy reading all the posts about ploughs and ploughing and even enjoy the banter which howard and acrobob are part of. But every single time they get an opportunity, they slag the SOP off, they bring up old opinions and they get their knifes out.

For gods sake, we all know you two hold grudges against the SOP and the people in it. We all know your facts are your facts.Things happened you werent happy about. We all know the SOP isn't perfect, but most of us know they do their best, there are good people in there and they work hard to put on a good national. I was there for both days this year, the first day was great even though the weather wasnt but i went home early on sunday because of the rain and the mud and I dont envy those who have to clear it up.

The person who posted about putting off newcomers on here must be right because if i was a young lad and read on here all the shite about the SOP, i wouldn't want to join them and would go and find another hobby instead of ploughing. Its about time you lot stopped raking up old news, if you don't like SOP, thats fair enough, but shut up about them, don't put off young ploughmen and let other people make their own minds up about them.
 
I'm afraid this is all going a bit toxic and turning into a slanging match - god knows what some people must think of match ploughing if they stumble across this forum/thread.

I for one didn't use to worry about Nationals/SOP's until you get to a point where you get reasonable good at it and it makes you think about having a go to qualify! I've done about 9 Nationals now. For me in my area qualifying was a challenge as lots of people who plough at the nationals in my class also plough at a good chunk of the local matches I do! The vintage line up in Cheshire was similar to that you would see at the National! Anyway, like it or loath it, the National is supposed to be the pinnacle of British ploughing which people aspire to win. I'll refrain to comment on corruption, bad judging, etc as I don't really have grounds to. I do think we end up with some shite plots with our little old ploughs though! (Kent OMG!). As with anything in life, it could be improved. But in all seriousness, I have no great issue with it, its a ploughing match at the end of the day, and its also a hobby (with a price tag) we're supposed to enjoy! My bone of contention has always been that the scruffy classes (I still love that description!) bring in a chunk of the money and we should be represented better. I think the fact we now have the opportunity to plough two days is much much better (Good decision SOP!). We still have to qualify in the first place to go (?) rather than just get your local society to nominate you, but that just makes me think we have a good right to be there. Often its all about World style and Reversable, but I guess its part of the SOP's job to select/represent England on the world stage for that so I can understand it. However that's only 2 classes, there are also vintage, classic, trailer, high cut, horses, etc etc and I reckon we do out bit to bring in the gate money. It would be a pathetic match if it was just a handful of World and Eurostylers...
 

Ford1957

Member
Location
Northumberland
As a spectater, I dont see that its all about world style and reversables at the national. I see a whole lot of ploughing classes spread out in a field and they are all given plots to plough and they are all written up exactly the same in the catalogue. World style, reversable and the 3 vintage classes all have a plough off and the plough offs were all together in the field, and the supreme champion is chosen from all of them and the high cut and horses. in the SOP newsletter I dont see that theres any more written in the reports of the world championships than there is of the european vintage championships, they get equal coverage. So what exactly have you got to complain about? again you harp back to other years but surely its all about now and how fair you are treated now?
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
I'm afraid this is all going a bit toxic and turning into a slanging match - god knows what some people must think of match ploughing if they stumble across this forum/thread.

I for one didn't use to worry about Nationals/SOP's until you get to a point where you get reasonable good at it and it makes you think about having a go to qualify! I've done about 9 Nationals now. For me in my area qualifying was a challenge as lots of people who plough at the nationals in my class also plough at a good chunk of the local matches I do! The vintage line up in Cheshire was similar to that you would see at the National! Anyway, like it or loath it, the National is supposed to be the pinnacle of British ploughing which people aspire to win. I'll refrain to comment on corruption, bad judging, etc as I don't really have grounds to. I do think we end up with some shite plots with our little old ploughs though! (Kent OMG!). As with anything in life, it could be improved. But in all seriousness, I have no great issue with it, its a ploughing match at the end of the day, and its also a hobby (with a price tag) we're supposed to enjoy! My bone of contention has always been that the scruffy classes (I still love that description!) bring in a chunk of the money and we should be represented better. I think the fact we now have the opportunity to plough two days is much much better (Good decision SOP!). We still have to qualify in the first place to go (?) rather than just get your local society to nominate you, but that just makes me think we have a good right to be there. Often its all about World style and Reversable, but I guess its part of the SOP's job to select/represent England on the world stage for that so I can understand it. However that's only 2 classes, there are also vintage, classic, trailer, high cut, horses, etc etc and I reckon we do out bit to bring in the gate money. It would be a pathetic match if it was just a handful of World and Eurostylers...
I can see your points, but I think your view is a little coloured by history.
You mention the nomination /need to qualify system, well its not quite as you see it, the world style man has to be nominated and there are only so many societies that can do this, and of those, a home grown man would take preference, the others can attend as many qualifiers as they wish, thus having many bites at the cherry. Years ago, it was the other way around, world style had to win the local affiliated societies match to gain the nomination. You dont mention the fact that the high cut plough both days, but pay two entry fees! There are rumblings that the plough off finalist should do the same!
You mention plot condition, unless the site is surveyed just after harvest, and during cultivations, its unlikely that problem areas will be obvious, after all, I believe you ploughed up a lump of metal, you didnt see it, so how was the SOP supposed to? I have suggested a drone be used on future sites, to look for cropmarks which could show up problem areas, and also that old maps should be studied, doing that would have pointed out the forgotten yard found at Bishops Lydeard the first time we were there.
It was, and I believe still is, the SOPs reason for existance, to find world conventional and reversable contestants to represent the country. All else has been added on, I can remember when the national did indeed have just two classes, I ploughed in the first national to have a vintage class.
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
I havent posted on here for a while because if anyone ever says anything positive about the SOP they are shot to peaces by Howard and Acrobob. Me being one of them. But now some more have had teh guts to post something and stand up to them, I would like to back them up.

Although I havent posted for a long time, i enjoy reading all the posts about ploughs and ploughing and even enjoy the banter which howard and acrobob are part of. But every single time they get an opportunity, they slag the SOP off, they bring up old opinions and they get their knifes out.

For gods sake, we all know you two hold grudges against the SOP and the people in it. We all know your facts are your facts.Things happened you werent happy about. We all know the SOP isn't perfect, but most of us know they do their best, there are good people in there and they work hard to put on a good national. I was there for both days this year, the first day was great even though the weather wasnt but i went home early on sunday because of the rain and the mud and I dont envy those who have to clear it up.

The person who posted about putting off newcomers on here must be right because if i was a young lad and read on here all the shite about the SOP, i wouldn't want to join them and would go and find another hobby instead of ploughing. Its about time you lot stopped raking up old news, if you don't like SOP, thats fair enough, but shut up about them, don't put off young ploughmen and let other people make their own minds up about them.

Eyup Fordy. Long time no see - ows tha goin? All good I trust.

Hellish hard for an English guy to be English now. I can’t collect the golliwogs from off the jam for me grandson and Baa Baa (bin a bit o’that on ere recently) black sheep has been taken off the reading list for me granddaughter. I can give neither on’ em Easter eggs cos the nearest I can get is a celebration egg, it won’t be long before poppies are banned cos already they are talking about removing the holocaust from school history lessons, and my son took years to recover from ‘You all have to take a turn at winning’ Christmas will be next on the hit list and then a bolt out of the blue, here you are asking me for what’s tantamount to trip advisor with no bad comments - whatever next.
Not all bad though cos we might have to start and celebrate Ramadan (I like a good feast now and then), starve ourselves during daylight hours just to make minority groups welcome and us to know and understand their feelings, pretty much what most farm lads grew up with anyroad - me included.

Seriously though - just take the time and read the recent post by Wuddy on how our compatriots north o’ the ‘Waall’ run their society. That needs to happen in England. It can never happen under current influences.
As far as young guys having heads turned then perhaps they are just not interested enough. When I first started, I was going to plough no matter what. Every ploughing match within 30 miles of here you were told the bad points over and over again, and far far more aggressively than has been done on here. Hurt feelings now? Ask some o’ them old hands about hurt feelings. Did it put me off? Never - I was going to plough whatever. I made my own mind up.
Your comments about equality Whilst correct now, never were a few years ago when Vintage were the poor relations. Different now there are no World Style clients and vintage is needed to make a show on both days. Think on before you shoot me down but a couple of us complained about the disparity for a good while, the same as getting funding when ploughing for England, only for it to be rubbished and then appear miraculously as someone else’s vision for the future a few years later.
What also needs to happen is for ploughmen to be in the driving seat - ploughmen actively ploughing, of which numbers on the executive are limited now.
All good fun. Nothing said on here that has not been said at AGM’s but then you would never know that, not attending AGM’s and Hans Christian Andersen having been drafted in to write the minutes.

And surprisingly enough all I ever wanted - then and now - is a fair deal for all those ploughing.

Look after yourself Fordy. See you around.
 
Last edited:

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Eyup Fordy. Long time no see - ows tha goin? All good I trust.

Hellish hard for an English guy to be English now. I can’t collect the golliwogs from off the jam for me grandson and Baa Baa (bin a bit o’that on ere recently) black sheep has been taken off the reading list for me granddaughter. I can give neither on’ em Easter eggs cos the nearest I can get is a celebration egg, it won’t be long before poppies are banned cos already they are talking about removing the holocaust from school history lessons, and my son took years to recover from ‘You all have to take a turn at winning’ Christmas will be next on the hit list and then a bolt out of the blue, here you are asking me for what’s tantamount to trip advisor with no bad comments - whatever next.
Not all bad though cos we might have to start and celebrate Ramadan (I like a good feast now and then), starve ourselves during daylight hours just to make minority groups welcome and us to know and understand their feelings, pretty much what most farm lads grew up with anyroad - me included.

Seriously though - just take the time and read the recent post by Wuddy on how our compatriots north o’ the ‘Waall’ run their society. That needs to happen in England. It can never happen under current influences.
As far as young guys having heads turned then perhaps they are just not interested enough. When I first started, I was going to plough no matter what. Every ploughing match within 30 miles of here you were told the bad points over and over again, and far far more aggressively than has been done on here. Hurt feelings now? Ask some o’ them old hands about hurt feelings. Did it put me off? Never - I was going to plough whatever. I made my own mind up.
Your comments about equality Whilst correct now, never were a few years ago when Vintage were the poor relations. Different now there are no World Style clients and vintage is needed to make a show on both days. Think on before you shoot me down but a couple of us complained about the disparity for a good while, the same as getting funding when ploughing for England, only for it to be rubbished and then appear miraculously as someone else’s vision for the future a few years later.
What also needs to happen is for ploughmen to be in the driving seat - ploughmen actively ploughing, of which numbers on the executive are limited now.
All good fun. Nothing said on here that has not been said at AGM’s but then you would never know that, not attending AGM’s and Hans Christian Andersen having been drafted in to write the minutes.

And surprisingly enough all I ever wanted - then and now - is a fair deal for all those ploughing.

Look after yourself Fordy. See you around.
As far as I am aware, AGM minutes are a video tape and not " written"
 

Ford1957

Member
Location
Northumberland
You still can't help yourself by having that dig can you?
You still have to drag up what was then. leave it. draw a line. be done with it. your bitterness doesnt help you.
However things are run elsewhere doesnt have anythingto do with how they are done here and i'm sure its not all rosey in other countrys, they just don't post all their sh!t over social media.

As for youngsters, no theyre probably not as keen as you were in your youth, nor as lots of other folk years ago. But even if they have just a little bit of enthusiasm they have to be actively encouraged, not dis-couraged by reading all the negativity on here. encourage them to join the SOP, to be part of something, let them aim to plough in the nationals,and if they find they dont like how things are run or the poeple in the sop, then let them find it out for themselves. i'm not trying to shoot you down, just trying to ask you to do the right thing now. There are some of us who are sick & tired of you and acrobob swiping at the SOP and their people with the same old comments when there is just no need to.
 

IH574

Member
You still can't help yourself by having that dig can you?
You still have to drag up what was then. leave it. draw a line. be done with it. your bitterness doesnt help you.
However things are run elsewhere doesnt have anythingto do with how they are done here and i'm sure its not all rosey in other countrys, they just don't post all their sh!t over social media.

As for youngsters, no theyre probably not as keen as you were in your youth, nor as lots of other folk years ago. But even if they have just a little bit of enthusiasm they have to be actively encouraged, not dis-couraged by reading all the negativity on here. encourage them to join the SOP, to be part of something, let them aim to plough in the nationals,and if they find they dont like how things are run or the poeple in the sop, then let them find it out for themselves. i'm not trying to shoot you down, just trying to ask you to do the right thing now. There are some of us who are sick & tired of you and acrobob swiping at the SOP and their people with the same old comments when there is just no need to.
Very well said
 

rusty nuts

Member
I know instead of pulling everybody to pieces on here and being as it is a ploughing match site lets have a ploughing match for everyone that writes on here then instead of a slanging match we could have a ploughing match . Some where in the middle of the country . God knows who we will get to judge it .
 
As a spectater, I dont see that its all about world style and reversables at the national. I see a whole lot of ploughing classes spread out in a field and they are all given plots to plough and they are all written up exactly the same in the catalogue. World style, reversable and the 3 vintage classes all have a plough off and the plough offs were all together in the field, and the supreme champion is chosen from all of them and the high cut and horses. in the SOP newsletter I dont see that theres any more written in the reports of the world championships than there is of the european vintage championships, they get equal coverage. So what exactly have you got to complain about? again you harp back to other years but surely its all about now and how fair you are treated now?
“Harp on...” rather harsh description to my polite post.. The Sat/Sun ploughing only started last year. I don’t really see my post as complaining, but your entitled to your opinion...
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
I know instead of pulling everybody to pieces on here and being as it is a ploughing match site lets have a ploughing match for everyone that writes on here then instead of a slanging match we could have a ploughing match . Some where in the middle of the country . God knows who we will get to judge it .
I doubt if he can help, he certainly wouldnt want the job himself!( and he wouldnt get it right either!)
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,290
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top