awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
at that stocking rate I wouldn't be spendi g money on fertiliser. you could work a rotation of 75 days at that. and almost have no need for making silage
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
- Location
- West Yorkshire
I fully understand what you are saying but most land is very rough pp land that is not really sensible to split up into smaller paddocks that I’m currently doing a lot of improvement on. Lime seed muck etc. But will never sustain enough growth to last all winter and Meadow land can become to wet to winter out on.
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
you would be very surprised how far you can push grazing when u move daily and back fence. we have land with springs in it very old pasture and the stock can shave the place . grass is brilliant to recover and you can top dress any severe patches
marco
Member
- Location
- tipperary, ireland
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
I leave the ewe lambs with their mothers and they do the weaning, but the ram lambs I take out at 4 months at which point they are just about ready to breed. I know cause I’ve waited a week or two longer and had surprises but at 4 mos , and the middle of August when it’s really hot, seems to work fine. I think some are already weaned by then. I don’t vaccinate, drench, dock, castrate or weigh the lambs. I finish them all myself andsend them all to the butcher on the same day. The butcher weighs the carcasses and I ask my clients if they want a large, medium or small lamb( or half).
The only extra my lambs get is being born indoors and spending the month of April in the barn.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
When I used to keep my cattle and sheep together all year I had no problems with cattle( calves , yearlings or adults) hurting the lambs. It helps if you have some area where the lambs can go for safety, possible a taller and shorter backfence? or a backfence with a slightly higher spot ? I stopped keeping the one mob because the sheep would not respect the 2 strand electric fence by august. I switched them to elictrified netting. No more fencing problems but more work and can’t move them daily. They go back to being one group once the grazing is over and the lambs are gone in a few weeks. I’m looking forward to that. It all becomes a bit tedious this time of year with the shorter days and the rushing about to get everything done before the snow falls.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
went to this yesterday
a great soils workshop with Nicole Masters from Integrity Soils. A Kiwi, she does a lot of work in Canada, US & Australia as well
https://www.integritysoils.co.nz/
a great soils workshop with Nicole Masters from Integrity Soils. A Kiwi, she does a lot of work in Canada, US & Australia as well
https://www.integritysoils.co.nz/
Last edited:
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
have just ordered Dirt to Soil by Gabe Brown
The key is how we think, Brown says. In the industrial agricultural model, all thoughts are focused on killing things. But that mindset was also killing diversity, soil, and profit, Brown realized. Now he channels his creative thinking toward how he can get more life on the land-more plants, animals, and beneficial insects. "The greatest roadblock to solving a problem," Brown says, "is the human mind."
The key is how we think, Brown says. In the industrial agricultural model, all thoughts are focused on killing things. But that mindset was also killing diversity, soil, and profit, Brown realized. Now he channels his creative thinking toward how he can get more life on the land-more plants, animals, and beneficial insects. "The greatest roadblock to solving a problem," Brown says, "is the human mind."
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
Interesting thought.
that soils workshop yesterday, about 25 - 30 people.
At no point was there any talk of "which breed" "which grass" "which tractor" sh!t that seems to dominate TFF
its good to hang out with positive people
that soils workshop yesterday, about 25 - 30 people.
At no point was there any talk of "which breed" "which grass" "which tractor" sh!t that seems to dominate TFF
its good to hang out with positive people
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
was talking to a fella yesterday who has destocked 1100 hd of cattle due to the continuing conditions ( so im assuming he knows what he is talking about ). He was talking about selecting bulls / cows, how many modern breeders are chasing the wrong things & he said he only selects on fertility / calves on the ground. Kept quoting this bloke, his website looks pretty interesting
https://www.pharocattle.com/about
https://www.pharocattle.com/blog
https://www.pharocattle.com/about
https://www.pharocattle.com/blog
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I like his reasoning.
That is about where I am at myself, but then my genetics aren't too shabby in terms of heritable problems so I find myself in the position of identifying "potential culls but keeping them for now" - simply because there isn't enough to upset me
It's also why I keep my capital stock numbers rather small (relative to what I trade) until I get my systems sorted better - basically all my females are rather safe, all my males are rather expendable.
The eventual goal is to have a small team of dairy x cows to multi-suckle calves onto - the benefits of hand rearing them, without the time input?
(Hence those halfbred friesian x limmy/beef shorthorn heifers running around the place, which should outmilk most beef breeds and last OK)
That is about where I am at myself, but then my genetics aren't too shabby in terms of heritable problems so I find myself in the position of identifying "potential culls but keeping them for now" - simply because there isn't enough to upset me
It's also why I keep my capital stock numbers rather small (relative to what I trade) until I get my systems sorted better - basically all my females are rather safe, all my males are rather expendable.
The eventual goal is to have a small team of dairy x cows to multi-suckle calves onto - the benefits of hand rearing them, without the time input?
(Hence those halfbred friesian x limmy/beef shorthorn heifers running around the place, which should outmilk most beef breeds and last OK)
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It is quite painful to watch it unravel, which it appears to be at present.
However they are still really quite convinced it will work in the end, in spite of the contradictory evidence
I think the main reason nobody takes me seriously, is because I am a New Zealander
it must be quite disappointing when, for example @Agrispeed or @Henarar pipe up the alternatives seem to work just alright, wherever you call home....
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
a couple of interesting things to come out of the Nicole Masters day was the importance of bacteria / fungi ratios in the soil ( basically, bacteria dominant is bad, more fungi the better ) & Quorum Sensing or communication between plants, microbes & fungi which lead to Induced Systemic Response to disease, insect attacks etc
too much green material, simple sugars, manure / slurry & urea leads to bacteria dominant soils & compaction ( she used a typical dairy farm as an example )
fungi tends to dominate in soils with complex sugars / carbons, woody material, cellulose, lignin, straw, dry plant materials, humates, fulvics, biochar etc. Larger, more stable soil aggregates. Better infiltration & aeration.
In a forest, up to 90% of the stored carbon can be in the fungal hyphae in the soil . . .
Quorum sensing. Hormones, pheromones, enzymes, vitamins, sugars, amino acids & proteins. 80% of plant health & nutrition is driven by biological functions. Diverse communities = more signals, more gene expression, increased resilience to stress, crop health & stress
Optimising biological diversity & biomass is critical
one of the real "baddies" is soluble fertiliser. Takes out protozoas & nematodes ( the good guys ) & promotes bacteria, pathogens, root feeding nematodes & turns soil into "constipated" & a "junkie"
too much green material, simple sugars, manure / slurry & urea leads to bacteria dominant soils & compaction ( she used a typical dairy farm as an example )
fungi tends to dominate in soils with complex sugars / carbons, woody material, cellulose, lignin, straw, dry plant materials, humates, fulvics, biochar etc. Larger, more stable soil aggregates. Better infiltration & aeration.
In a forest, up to 90% of the stored carbon can be in the fungal hyphae in the soil . . .
Quorum sensing. Hormones, pheromones, enzymes, vitamins, sugars, amino acids & proteins. 80% of plant health & nutrition is driven by biological functions. Diverse communities = more signals, more gene expression, increased resilience to stress, crop health & stress
Optimising biological diversity & biomass is critical
one of the real "baddies" is soluble fertiliser. Takes out protozoas & nematodes ( the good guys ) & promotes bacteria, pathogens, root feeding nematodes & turns soil into "constipated" & a "junkie"
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
just giving these a very light buzz-off... I don't realise how healthy this place looks until I get the neighbour's farms in the shot, it's a funny shade of green!
Some of my yearling "£100" heifers.
Lily the lim is everyone's pet.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
- Location
- Devon
Interesting stuff.
Struggling to get my head round the "milky cows are to expensive to keep" approach though.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
I put some links to his website / blogs a few posts earlier. Interesting reading
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I guess I may be about to challenge that theory, but only because I intend to rear about 10 calves to weaning weight per cow per year.
I think a heifer could rear 6 and still be back in calf without a worry?
But on a cow calf pair the maths is reasonably simple that there is no point having a bigger anything when the reality is that you could be a third of the way to an extra one? So more bone, more milk than is needed is a cost.
Hence the big drive towards larger and larger livestock, otherwise they would be all little cheap-to-run ones!
And there goes the external control of what you do, you're well on your way to deregulation...
the scary place where nobody tells you what to do.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
I'm thinking that way too. It's not worth changing our herd in the time we're still here but another point with big cows is their weight causes more damage issues as the soil wets up (their ground pressure must be higher).I guess I may be about to challenge that theory, but only because I intend to rear about 10 calves to weaning weight per cow per year.
I think a heifer could rear 6 and still be back in calf without a worry?
But on a cow calf pair the maths is reasonably simple that there is no point having a bigger anything when the reality is that you could be a third of the way to an extra one? So more bone, more milk than is needed is a cost.
Hence the big drive towards larger and larger livestock, otherwise they would be all little cheap-to-run ones!
And there goes the external control of what you do, you're well on your way to deregulation...