Chicken Muck -> Cover crop -> Sugar Beet question.

Daniel · Dec 3, 2018

For the last couple of years we have baled straw, cleared it and sown a DSV cover crop mix https://www.dsv-uk.co.uk/cover-crops/terralife/betasola.html

This is left through winter, anything that survives to spring is killed off, then chicken muck spread on top and ploughed in.

The question is, would we benefit from spreading the muck after harvest, discing in, letting the cover crop use the nutrients, then kill it off and incorporate?

I.e. will the cover crop cycle it efficiently through the winter, or will too much N be lost for it to be worthwhile?

The benefit is that you could get the muck spread in decent conditions on long sunny days, rather than trying to force it at the end of a wet winter. The downside is its another job after harvest, might need to chop the straw to free up some time.

Sonoftheheir · Dec 3, 2018

Haven’t quantified any trials here but muck is always put on straight after the straw is cleared then cover crop in August.

Clive · Dec 4, 2018

my gut feel is turning the muck into more carbon should be a win and make sense, the nutrition won't be lost unless you are applying more than the cover crop can use

sure someone clever could do the maths on it though

chipchap · Dec 4, 2018

I reckon you would need to be choosing the right species, or mix of species, of cover crop to “lock up” the N.

JD6920s · Dec 4, 2018

Put it on before the CC, much better conditions therefore less compaction risk, will help the CC create more biomass, giving you more OM for your soil, along with bigger roots to help keep the soil freed draining to hopefully allow you on the ground earlier in the spring, all working out much better and kinder for the following beet crop.

Flat 10 · Dec 4, 2018

My gut feeling is no you can’t, I think with chicken you will be worse off, less likely with other sorts of muck as less N. Depends how much you have been putting on?

chipchap · Dec 4, 2018

A typical dressing of 3 tons per acre contains a lot of N.

Daniel · Dec 4, 2018

This is the last analysis we had done, 3t gives 48kg/ac or 118kg/ha of total N.

MNBVCXZ · Dec 4, 2018

Layers or broilers?

Daniel · Dec 4, 2018

MNBVCXZ said:
Layers or broilers?

Layers

MNBVCXZ · Dec 4, 2018

I would get it on before the cc, assuming you can get a well established cc to use the nutrients.

Brisel · Dec 4, 2018

Where do you want to see the maximum benefit of the muck? I'm guessing it's in the beet crop, not the cover crop. The cover crop will slowly release its goodies over time whereas the poultry muck will be a quick hit.

It's a dilemma but as long as you're applying and incorporating the muck close to the point of drilling the beet that would be where it would give the best return as long as you don't have a heavy rain event before the beet crop is big enough to take most of it up or you don't cause soil damage applying the muck in the spring. For heavier land I'd say put the muck on before any early ground work, using the cover crop to soak it up and keep the soil alive so you don't have to do much pre beet drilling in the spring.

Will 1594 · Dec 4, 2018

What soul type are you on , silt black , or blowing stuff

Sonoftheheir · Dec 4, 2018

I guess you don’t want too much N available for the beet? As that would put up the amino N and reduce the sugar %?

Daniel · Dec 4, 2018

Brisel said:
Where do you want to see the maximum benefit of the muck? I'm guessing it's in the beet crop, not the cover crop. The cover crop will slowly release its goodies over time whereas the poultry muck will be a quick hit.

It's a dilemma but as long as you're applying and incorporating the muck close to the point of drilling the beet that would be where it would give the best return as long as you don't have a heavy rain event before the beet crop is big enough to take most of it up or you don't cause soil damage applying the muck in the spring. For heavier land I'd say put the muck on before any early ground work, using the cover crop to soak it up and keep the soil alive so you don't have to do much pre beet drilling in the spring.

In the beet, but the covers have struggled to get going this autumn with the dry spell, maybe with some muck under them they may have picked up sooner when the moisture came?

Will 1594 said:
What soul type are you on , silt black , or blowing stuff

Loamy fen mainly, with some heavier stuff, only got a couple of fields that would blow really badly.

Brisel · Dec 4, 2018

Just read your opening post again. Chopping straw would help tie up some of the N. Discing risks more N loss - was there any ureic N? None listed in your analysis. You're also risking more N leaching loss over winter unless you've got a serious canopy to sequester it. If it were Dorset, I'd certainly do the muck in the autumn but rain is more reliable over here and it would be even wetter in spring too.

How would you sow the CC? Claydon?

Will 1594 · Dec 4, 2018

In a normal average year how long between ploughing and waiting to dry to work for beet drilling , ,if you want to come look at what we doing in 4 different fields , We put resistant bcn radish in one stubble turnips kale rape and mustard in another , straight mustard ,and late drilled mustard and tillage radish in another , kale rape hybrid pointless as a pidgeon magnet , Oil radish looked poorest 14 kg ha , not too big ,but put spade in and very good rooting ,I think it’s whats underneath better than a lot of top , It will all get mown off and maybe a taste of glypho and a good dressing of pig muck , ,ploughed 5/6 inch deep to get some fresh soil and then low disturbance subsoiler cultivator through it on RTK at 45 cm rows , I would put muck on as near too sowing as you can what ever fert you need to balance it ,but use a portion of it as liquid at drilling if you can . to kick start it ,till it finds the muck ,did one this way last year and first lift 93 t ha , ,

wellingtonfarmer · Dec 4, 2018

I’m going with put it on in the spring as the beet is your cash crop. Surely cover crops start losing there benefit if you are chucking money at them.

Brisel · Dec 4, 2018

wellingtonfarmer said:
I’m going with put it on in the spring as the beet is your cash crop. Surely cover crops start losing there benefit if you are chucking money at them.

The idea is that the cover crop releases its nutrients to the following crop. You apply the muck in the autumn, doing minimal soil damage and the cover crop holds onto the goodness.

Daniel · Dec 4, 2018

Brisel said:
Just read your opening post again. Chopping straw would help tie up some of the N. Discing risks more N loss - was there any ureic N? None listed in your analysis. You're also risking more N leaching loss over winter unless you've got a serious canopy to sequester it. If it were Dorset, I'd certainly do the muck in the autumn but rain is more reliable over here and it would be even wetter in spring too.

How would you sow the CC? Claydon?

Claydon yes, don't know about N.

Chicken Muck -> Cover crop -> Sugar Beet question.

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