"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

ShooTa · Jan 23, 2019

im working with that single setup system hen - you need just enough to jump you to the next field.
im thinking longer term about some doing exaclty what kiwi is saying with the thin runs - but obvs need more wire just for sheep AND some way of cover if the wind swings 90 to any move direction that doesnt have enough shelter ./or shade i guess. even longer term is that ability to have paddocks pre set up within our woodland for those silly summer days - or a setback fence that can be oepned up at key points.

@Kiwi Pete dont forget with long runs over a 200m to add in a break gate (s) so you can turn them about fast for whatever reason

Kiwi Pete · Jan 23, 2019

200 metres is about the length of most of my little paddocks

so I'd be looking at putting about 140 metres up per lane, stopping 30 metres short of the fence with a post, and put a 'tape gate' from the ends, to the fence, thus making the last cells my laneway in/out/back around.

Eventually then, we'll likely cross the lanes with more silly string, to create a nice grid of cells. Teaching stock to move under the wire will be a game-changer, no more rolling things back to let them around.

ShooTa · Jan 23, 2019

i threw a photo up in the techno grazing thread of our little racetrack - run polypipe up the central wire and put spurs with some fast connectors onto themthat way you could throw on a IBC at one end or other gravity fed system for watering.

Poorbuthappy · Jan 23, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
200 metres is about the length of most of my little paddocks so I'd be looking at putting about 140 metres up per lane, stopping 30 metres short of the fence with a post, and put a 'tape gate' from the ends, to the fence, thus making the last cells my laneway in/out/back around.

Eventually then, we'll likely cross the lanes with more silly string, to create a nice grid of cells. Teaching stock to move under the wire will be a game-changer, no more rolling things back to let them around.

Were they moving stock under the wire at the farm you went to see?
I peg the wire down and move sheep over it. Cattle I just roll the reel in a ways, they're not so keen to go under or over, but will go over at a push.

Kiwi Pete · Jan 23, 2019

Poorbuthappy said:
Were they moving stock under the wire at the farm you went to see?
I peg the wire down and move sheep over it. Cattle I just roll the reel in a ways, they're not so keen to go under or over, but will go over at a push.

Yeah, their reasoning is that you can leave a wire up for as long as you want, but you short out your fence if it's pegged down.
For their bulling cows, they had 4 cells open, of course all the calves creep around the adults, but the adults still have plenty of space.

They did have "stock rods" ie an electric "fishing rod" that you cast a little alloy pipe over the wire, and then you have an instant electric wing to draft/guide stock with, they said it would take about 2 or 3 days to train most cattle to the system - but some take weeks to follow the mob under, as they just don't get hungry.

I used to peg wires down too, but obviously you cant really isolate wires to do that if it is all part of a big grid.

Crofter64 · Jan 23, 2019

foobar said:
That article was from 2015 - The Guardian have changed sides since then.

We used to get the International Guardian , which came once a week. We had it for 20 years and then it suddenly changed its tone and became strident. It used to be such a balanced summary of what had happened in the world. we didn’t renew our subscription last year.

NZDan · Jan 24, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
Yeah, their reasoning is that you can leave a wire up for as long as you want, but you short out your fence if it's pegged down.
For their bulling cows, they had 4 cells open, of course all the calves creep around the adults, but the adults still have plenty of space.

They did have "stock rods" ie an electric "fishing rod" that you cast a little alloy pipe over the wire, and then you have an instant electric wing to draft/guide stock with, they said it would take about 2 or 3 days to train most cattle to the system - but some take weeks to follow the mob under, as they just don't get hungry.

I used to peg wires down too, but obviously you cant really isolate wires to do that if it is all part of a big grid.

I won the stockrod competition on my Techno course [emoji16][emoji16]

Kiwi Pete · Jan 24, 2019

NZDan said:
I won the stockrod competition on my Techno course [emoji16][emoji16]

Very handy tool, eh? Harry must be one hell of a clever bloke to come up with these things

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 24, 2019

ShooTa said:
i threw a photo up in the techno grazing thread of our little racetrack - run polypipe up the central wire and put spurs with some fast connectors onto themthat way you could throw on a IBC at one end or other gravity fed system for watering.

Assuming you have a good gradient....

A good idea though to get the required air gap from the mains. Have you a link to a UK supplier for fast water connectors?

Samcowman · Jan 24, 2019

Samcowman · Jan 24, 2019

Maybe it’s starting to get into the mainstream a bit more now. Was in a meeting with AHDB the other day and a couple of us were talking about regenerative ag and put this guys name forward to speak to.

Poorbuthappy · Jan 24, 2019

Samcowman said:
View attachment 759904
Maybe it’s starting to get into the mainstream a bit more now. Was in a meeting with AHDB the other day and a couple of us were talking about regenerative ag and put this guys name forward to speak to.

Been to a meeting today about herbal leys - speaker was Charlie Morgan. I was interested to hear what he had to say as last time I heard him he was pushing ryegrass ryegrass ryegrass! Turns out he has been out to visit Gabe Brown and Joel Salatin

. Gabe's soils convinced him Gabe was onto something...
Though he did say it was taking what his Grandfather taught him and pushing it to the next level. A mate quoted "all we've got left to learn is everything we've forgotten".

awkward · Jan 24, 2019

Poorbuthappy said:
Been to a meeting today about herbal leys - speaker was Charlie Morgan. I was interested to hear what he had to say as last time I heard him he was pushing ryegrass ryegrass ryegrass! Turns out he has been out to visit Gabe Brown and Joel Salatin. Gabe's soils convinced him Gabe was onto something...
Though he did say it was taking what his Grandfather taught him and pushing it to the next level. A mate quoted "all we've got left to learn is everything we've forgotten".

And maybe forget one or two things that we have been taught

Kiwi Pete · Jan 24, 2019

awkward said:
And maybe forget one or two things that we have been taught

Yeah, like big fields being a massive business advantage!
Split up a 3.6ha paddock into 36 cells last night

what a mission

however the covers are looking fantastic after a few mm of the wet stuff.
Also really nice to see some of my @Blaithin -inspired "frost seeding" seems to have worked

have red clover halfway to my knee

onesiedale · Jan 24, 2019

Not quite sure if the message is dropping on everyone's desk quite the same. I asked AHDB Dairy for any information they could pass on about Holistic Planned Grazing. In fairness they did some research and sent me the Nuffield report of Geraint Powell. A good read and I have attached here (below)

The disappointing bit was the tone of the email to which it was attached.

". . . This is not the grassland management we would be discussing to grow 12+ t DM/ha to reach +4500 L from forage and I think this is the key message if discussing the different. This is very much taking the environmental and ecology route but does involve a lot of decisions on the whole system and the effect of these decisions on animal, biodiversity, environment and ecology.

· Previously looked into this and didn’t find many independent peer-reviewed published papers."

I think there needs to be a bit more joined up thinking (holistically of course) within AHDB to help guide the many dairy farmers who are currently looking at HPG as a serious profitable system to graze their cows.
So come on AHDB, please step up to the mark and draw on some more info/ expertise so that those of us who are grazing cows can take it to the next management level!

texas pete · Jan 24, 2019

onesiedale said:
Not quite sure if the message is dropping on everyone's desk quite the same. I asked AHDB Dairy for any information they could pass on about How Planned Grazing. In fairness they did some research and sent me the Nuffield report of Geraint Powell. A good read and I have attached here (below)

The disappointing bit was the tone of the email to which it was attached.

". . . This is not the grassland management we would be discussing to grow 12+ t DM/ha to reach +4500 L from forage and I think this is the key message if discussing the different. This is very much taking the environmental and ecology route but does involve a lot of decisions on the whole system and the effect of these decisions on animal, biodiversity, environment and ecology.

· Previously looked into this and didn’t find many independent peer-reviewed published papers."

I think there needs to be a bit more joined up thinking (holistically of course) within AHDB to help guide the many dairy farmers who are currently looking at HPG as a serious profitable system to graze their cows.
So come on AHDB, please step up to the mark and draw on some more info/ expertise so that those of us who are grazing cows can take it to the next management level!

Big job there. Maybe they need a white paper, to steer a focus group, so they can implement a step change....

onesiedale · Jan 24, 2019

texas pete said:
Big job there. Maybe they need a white paper, to steer a focus group, so they can implement a step change....

However I do think that a 'ground up' movement will have some effect. As levy payers we must keep chipping away at them and asking for the help/information.

Kiwi Pete · Jan 24, 2019

onesiedale said:
However I do think that a 'ground up' movement will have some effect. As levy payers we must keep chipping away at them and asking for the help/information.

I doubt they will help much - there's just so much vested interest in Ag.

Farmers have to do their own research, in almost all cases, if their measures are to reduce inputs - anything else puts most of these types of groups in a huge conflict of interest, as so much of their funding doesn't come from farmers but from corporate entities

Samcowman · Jan 24, 2019

onesiedale said:
Not quite sure if the message is dropping on everyone's desk quite the same. I asked AHDB Dairy for any information they could pass on about Holistic Planned Grazing. In fairness they did some research and sent me the Nuffield report of Geraint Powell. A good read and I have attached here (below)

The disappointing bit was the tone of the email to which it was attached.

". . . This is not the grassland management we would be discussing to grow 12+ t DM/ha to reach +4500 L from forage and I think this is the key message if discussing the different. This is very much taking the environmental and ecology route but does involve a lot of decisions on the whole system and the effect of these decisions on animal, biodiversity, environment and ecology.

· Previously looked into this and didn’t find many independent peer-reviewed published papers."

I think there needs to be a bit more joined up thinking (holistically of course) within AHDB to help guide the many dairy farmers who are currently looking at HPG as a serious profitable system to graze their cows.
So come on AHDB, please step up to the mark and draw on some more info/ expertise so that those of us who are grazing cows can take it to the next management level!

The couple of AHDB guys we were talking to weren’t really aware but they are now and were taking notes of suggestions of where they should
be heading.
Definitely needs to be from the ground up to make these more influential guys know about it.

texas pete · Jan 24, 2019

onesiedale said:
However I do think that a 'ground up' movement will have some effect. As levy payers we must keep chipping away at them and asking for the help/information.

Dead right, let the buggers know, it belongs to the industry after all. Not sure what difference it will make, but you can but try. One day the industry may wake up and realise what it is funding, rather than what it could be funding.

Personally I never even think of referring to the AHDB for information, I would more likely look at Beef & Lamb NZ if I wanted levy paid for info...

There is so much information out there, so much good work going on, without vested interests....Sometimes you even find the odd nugget on here...

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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