John Bercow

Yacker said:

As a remainer i voted because i like being part of Europe, have benefited from FOM business wise, enjoyed all the euro sport championships, was looking forward to retirement in the South of France, witnessed a lot of EU money (yes i know we chip in) being directed to communities that would never have benefited from a UK gov , loved the success of Nissan and the wealth it brought to the North East and so on.

I have no fear of change, i am wise enough to profit from it and my business is growing because of the fear and will continue to thrive. However i doubt the average joe will profit from brexit.

I have rattled on elswhere on here that my lack of faith is not in the country or the people its in the absolute shower of s**t that sit in the both houses, they will be the reason brexit will fail and the current position demonstrates that more than any words i could write. The fact is the EU is probably a safer pair of hands.

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My, the EU has expanded somewhat in the last few days.

The 2020 UEFA football Euros competition includes the following European nations (which according to your argument must be in the EU to allow them to take part):-

Russia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Israel

alex04w said:

My, the EU has expanded somewhat in the last few days.

The 2020 UEFA football Euros competition includes the following European nations (which according to your argument must be in the EU to allow them to take part):-

Russia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Israel

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and Kazakhstan!

You are the real Nelson Muntz and i claim my free Duff beer.

Yacker said:

You are the real Nelson Muntz and i claim my free Duff beer.

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Why should you get any prizes?You put bulls**t on as fact and when found out you claim you won,a true remainer

Two Tone said:

I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread, not being too surprised that it seems to be dominated by our Remain members.

I’m rather surprised that @Bomber_Harris, our residents non farmer who so obviously thinks the rest of us are well beneath him (proved by the disgustingly offensive comment he has at the bottom of every post he makes!) was beaten into starting yet another cocky Brexit thread.

I’d like to ask him and the rest of the Remainers a serious question or three:
When you voted for Remain, did you honestly do so because you like the EU?
Or because you were frightened of change?
Or that you have so little confidence that the U.K. could take back control of its destiny?

Yes, we all know what a total cock-up our glorious politicians have made on the subject. But I’d ask you all to reflect whether in fact you personally really voted FOR Remain (I.e. the EU) rather than AGAINST Leave?

This is mostly why whichever party in power gets elected - Against the loser rather than for the winner.

IMO those that voted for Leave, truly voted against the EU (and ironically the future changes it was heading towards).
Also Ironically, I believe that most of those that voted for Remain, did so because they were frightened, even terrified of TOO MUCH change that leaving would entail.

That’s understandable. But IMO not only such a shame, but a total lack of confidence in our own country!

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I think you have misread a lot of remainers or simply want to throw some insults around - the rhetoric you use (terrified of change) does little more than offend. But as to your question, I voted remain, It wasn't because I like the EU (which I do), it wasn't because I fear change (which I don't, in fact I relish), it was absolutely because of your third point - more so the process of taking back control. Anyone who knows me will testify that I was all over the prospects of leaving, that I was well and truly up for the challenge and the opportunities, but then the penny dropped - I did not trust our politicians to deliver their promises, in fact their promises were so outlandish they were clearly BS and designed to capture votes rather than be a mandate they would deliver upon. And should their promises fail, should it turn into a shambles - then what?

Bare in mind these same politicians have failed to represent us as a powerful member (yes we are the least affective of the most powerful members) of the EU, but are going to be trail blazers on the world stage - really? Well we are currently laughing stock all over the planet.

The fact the ref was NOT legally binding was a serious worry for me as it provides far too much ambiguity and flex for politicians to f£ck this up, and yes whilst it was in Labour and Tory manifestos to deliver on the result - how many manifesto promises are kept? But all of a sudden brexiteers take manifestos as gospel despite being promised by the politicians we don't trust.

The bit that really gets my goat is the desire of Brexiteers (politicians and public) who sound so desperate now to hang on to that faintest glimmer of a Brexit, that they will take any deal, any old crap, just as long as we drag our sorry arses out the door, where we end up, no one cares, we have lost sight of what we wanted to achieve (not just leave) but will now take anything that looks like Brexit, even if we all know it's worse than remaining.

So this is the Brexit I didn't want, but the one we were always going to get when such a simple answer was sought by way of a simple question to a very complex situation. Interesting conversations in the pub last night, the whole things started off amicably but descended into arguments between Brexiteers over what Brexit meant.

runny egg said:

I think you have misread a lot of remainers or simply want to throw some insults around - the rhetoric you use (terrified of change) does little more than offend. But as to your question, I voted remain, It wasn't because I like the EU (which I do), it wasn't because I fear change (which I don't, in fact I relish), it was absolutely because of your third point - more so the process of taking back control. Anyone who knows me will testify that I was all over the prospects of leaving, that I was well and truly up for the challenge and the opportunities, but then the penny dropped - I did not trust our politicians to deliver their promises, in fact their promises were so outlandish they were clearly BS and designed to capture votes rather than be a mandate they would deliver upon. And should their promises fail, should it turn into a shambles - then what?

Bare in mind these same politicians have failed to represent us as a powerful member (yes we are the least affective of the most powerful members) of the EU, but are going to be trail blazers on the world stage - really? Well we are currently laughing stock all over the planet.

The fact the ref was NOT legally binding was a serious worry for me as it provides far too much ambiguity and flex for politicians to f£ck this up, and yes whilst it was in Labour and Tory manifestos to deliver on the result - how many manifesto promises are kept? But all of a sudden brexiteers take manifestos as gospel despite being promised by the politicians we don't trust.

The bit that really gets my goat is the desire of Brexiteers (politicians and public) who sound so desperate now to hang on to that faintest glimmer of a Brexit, that they will take any deal, any old crap, just as long as we drag our sorry arses out the door, where we end up, no one cares, we have lost sight of what we wanted to achieve (not just leave) but will now take anything that looks like Brexit, even if we all know it's worse than remaining.

So this is the Brexit I didn't want, but the one we were always going to get when such a simple answer was sought by way of a simple question to a very complex situation. Interesting conversations in the pub last night, the whole things started off amicably but descended into arguments between Brexiteers over what Brexit meant.

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There is a lot within your post that I have to agree with;

No insults were intended, other than that appalling "Alexa, show me the largest community on the internet of turkeys that voted for Christmas", that @Bomber_Harris shows and the bottom of all his posts, which belittles us all as farmers and not just those who voted Leave!

It was a discussion on Radio 4 yesterday that drew my attention to the fact that some Remainers may have voted that way because they were worried about the upheaval that Brexit would involve. The sort of people who rightly believe that their lives are reasonably comfortable and didn't want to upset the status quo. Some of the Mrs Worcester's maybe?

However, I have to say I have experienced first hand locally to me, those who literally are terrified of Brexit. The longer it goes on and the more they read about it in their Newspapers, the more terrified they become. I am also sure that I read a post by @Yacker on another thread, where he mentioned that if Brexit goes ahead, his business could go down the pan.

We had the biggest turnout of any election/referendum ever on 23/6/16. There may be an argument that there were more passionate Leavers who voted than Remiainers. I'd suggest that there were also a lot who could not make up their minds, so didn't vote at all and left it to those of us that actually did, to decide. If there were any true Remainers who didn't vote because they believed that Remain would comfortably win, the polls were there for all of us to see and more fool them!

I have to strongly agree with you that the problem has been finding a Politician that actually has the guts and capability to pull it off. This might have been possible if TM hadn't called the 2017 election and lost her commanding majority, then being forced to rely on the DUP. IMO there were some good MP's who actually might have been able to make it possible, without completely upsetting both sides, being David Davis and George Eustice.

TM's own Chequers plan through trying to provide something for both sides, upset too many from both sides. Which is the real reason why we sit where we are today.

There have been other catastrophic mistakes such as ruling out our major trump card, being a NO Deal.

Yes, we are viewed by others Globally as a basket case. But not for wanting to leave the EU, rather than the appalling way our Politicians have tried (or not!) to do it. Comments I get from abroad are far more sympathetic to this than any concerns they have that we made the wrong decision during the referendum.

Yes also, that the referendum, might not actually be legally binding, but that we were clearly told that whichever we voted, our Government would carry out the results (even if we all know that most pre-election mandates fail to happen!).

So, this is a Brexit I don't want either. But I still want Brexit, properly done by anybody who isn't as idiotic as those that are in charge at the moment!

Our whole political system will disengage unless it actually carries out the result of the referendum. Isn't that very prospect worse than Brexit?


If the EU has any sense, it would tell our useless Politicians that we cannot have an extension to Article 50 and that we will be out of the EU as of 11 o'clock next Friday!

I said way back in late 2017, that this might be all a game, that we should turn off our Radios and Televisions and stop reading the Newspapers. That it won't actually be sorted out till just before 29th March and that it will come down to Not what the EU decides, but what Mrs Merkal wants. Apparently, she is now ready to talk and has said that she will do so right up to the very last minute!

Juncker saying a decision on an extension may not be decided until next week , going all the way.

PS, With regarding things like the Eurovision Song Contest, I don't know how old various posters are. Maybe some might remember that we took part in it many, many years before we joined the Common Market. We actually won it twice and were runners up twice before 1972.

I am sure we'll keep taking part after Brexit. But with probably far less chance of ever doing well in it again!

bobk said:

Juncker saying a decision on an extension may not be decided until next week , going all the way.

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Typically EU

Still Farming said:

Typically EU

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They need to make it last as long as poss so they can claim all those lovely travel expenses. Has any eu decision of note ever been done on time ? All those last minute midnight meetings, perhaps they have to do it under the cover of darkness or they turn to dust

Happy days.....

Yacker said:

Happy days.....

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Don't look like it ?

I have said it before the only way to settle this is a hard brexit, this will test the mettle of all.

So to the brexit faithful lets get it on and see where the dust settles.

Yacker said:

I have said it before the only way to settle this is a hard brexit, this will test the mettle of all.

So to the brexit faithful lets get it on and see where the dust settles.

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Tusks intervention looks like its going to be jump off cliff edge no deal.Why would Rees Mogg and co vote for Mays deal now? They have got what they wanted.

Well Mr Mogg and chums probably have realised that they will be unelectable when the "unicorn" promises they have made for a hard brexit dont deliver as they dont have either the political or economic strategy/work ethic to deliver - if its one thing that politicians dont like to get entangled with its responsibility. Snowflakes i believe is the common term.

Hence why i want a hard Brexit to lay bare these idle b*****s for what they are.

Yacker said:

Well Mr Mogg and chums probably have realised that they will be unelectable when the "unicorn" promises they have made for a hard brexit dont deliver as they dont have either the political or economic strategy/work ethic to deliver - if its one thing that politicians dont like to get entangled with its responsibility. Snowflakes i believe is the common term.

Hence why i want a hard Brexit to lay bare these idle b*****s for what they are.

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Its one way of looking at it,but a hell of a lot of ordinary folk will suffer as a result.

Yacker said:

Well Mr Mogg and chums probably have realised that they will be unelectable when the "unicorn" promises they have made for a hard brexit dont deliver as they dont have either the political or economic strategy/work ethic to deliver - if its one thing that politicians dont like to get entangled with its responsibility. Snowflakes i believe is the common term.

Hence why i want a hard Brexit to lay bare these idle b*****s for what they are.

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I'd regard whoever holds strong opinions on either side, the complete opposite of a snowflake!

It is only natural to wish ill of the side you didn't vote for.
But be careful sometimes, not to cut off your own nose to spite your face.

Two Tone said:

I'd regard whoever hold strong opinions on either side, the complete opposite of a snowflake!

It is only natural to wish ill of the side you didn't vote for.
But be careful sometimes, not to cut off your own nose to spite your face.

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So come on then,spell out the economic benefits for ordinary people of a no deal brexit.

Not cutting my nose off, i am as well insulated from damage as its possible for an ordinary Joe.

Your right Jendan chances are people will suffer but to be blunt lots of them voted for this.

We need to prove this one way or the other.

Yacker said:

Well Mr Mogg and chums probably have realised that they will be unelectable when the "unicorn" promises they have made for a hard brexit dont deliver as they dont have either the political or economic strategy/work ethic to deliver - if its one thing that politicians dont like to get entangled with its responsibility. Snowflakes i believe is the common term.

Hence why i want a hard Brexit to lay bare these idle b*****s for what they are.

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So, we are all on a train, and you noticed that the brakes are disconnected when you got on with us, but you want to keep quiet so your annoying neighbour the bus mechanic might get a bollocking by the coroner.

Thanks.