"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Does anyone still calve at 3 years? I did for years, worrying that my grass/ hay ( no silage ) system required it. I have switched to 2 years but have trouble getting them in calf for round two.
I've now started costings for the local college ( even though I don't like costings but they were short of Organic farms for the sample group) & the analyst was surprised I calves at 2 saying most calve at 3 but we worked out that because I calve all year round I can be more flexible e.g if a heifer isn't quite big enough at 2 I can give her a couple of extra months , where as anyone on a tight calving pattern would have to leave them until the following year.
Do you need to calve at a set time of year?
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Both my types of cow calf at 2 yrs the larger ones being larger at that age & have a larger mature weight , their steers are 50kgs heavier at 18months ( & usually grade better ) which at this week's price is £200 / per head extra so did the larger cow cost me £130 /yr in forage ? ( we'd have to measure intakes to see which cow converted her forage better ) Doubt it , if she did, her extra calves in a life time still surely would bring her out on top?
I love both my types of cow & both are precious to me so just pointing out measuring just one thing does not make one cow more efficient than another.
we have allsorts of cows weighing from 460kg to 900kg all I know is the ones that most likely don't pay are the big cows that end up with a small calf
our calves at market at about 10 months the heavier calves tend to make more [although confirmation will sometimes make a lighter calf make more] but the lighter calves tend to make more per kg than the heavier ones

we have one cow that costs twice as much in silage as any of the rest cos she throws as much as she eats over her back :mad: she has got two good calves this year though:D:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
we have allsorts of cows weighing from 460kg to 900kg all I know is the ones that most likely don't pay are the big cows that end up with a small calf
our calves at market at about 10 months the heavier calves tend to make more [although confirmation will sometimes make a lighter calf make more] but the lighter calves tend to make more per kg than the heavier ones

we have one cow that costs twice as much in silage as any of the rest cos she throws as much as she eats over her back :mad: she has got two good calves this year though:D:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
There does seem to be some cows that are more waste full what ever their size(y)
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
cloture.png


ORANGE =Corridor
YELLOW = Perimiter Fence.
RED = Semi-permenant fencing
BLUE = Waterline

Temporary fencing between the red lines.

However, I get your message. Mapping the paddock sizes can be done easily on line, we use the magic map tool, it's free and simple.
I do think it would be a good idea to plate meter weekly. Whilst some will say it's not necessary, it does give you a good reference of available forage. Combine this with what the stock are telling you and it will help build your confidence to make grazing plans and decisions

As far as mapping paddock sizes I can do it online with geoportail no problem. Which is all fine when planning the semi permenant and permenant fencing.

But seems complicated when out in the field setting up temporary fencing. I'd need gps and a phone signal which I nearly never have.

I Iike the idea of using the plate meter weekly to give me some kind of idea as to what i've done and what I'm doing.
 

Sharpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Both my types of cow calf at 2 yrs the larger ones being larger at that age & have a larger mature weight , their steers are 50kgs heavier at 18months ( & usually grade better ) which at this week's price is £200 / per head extra so did the larger cow cost me £130 /yr in forage ? ( we'd have to measure intakes to see which cow converted her forage better ) Doubt it , if she did, her extra calves in a life time still surely would bring her out on top?
I love both my types of cow & both are precious to me so just pointing out measuring just one thing does not make one cow more efficient than another.
What was the extra cost in feeding the heavier calf?
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
I've now started costings for the local college ( even though I don't like costings but they were short of Organic farms for the sample group) & the analyst was surprised I calves at 2 saying most calve at 3 but we worked out that because I calve all year round I can be more flexible e.g if a heifer isn't quite big enough at 2 I can give her a couple of extra months , where as anyone on a tight calving pattern would have to leave them until the following year.
Do you need to calve at a set time of year?
I try to calve in April but have a back up September calving for those who missed. So far this year all but one are calving in september. Mostly this is because once you calve in the autumn, you’re sort of stuck there. The cows are in great condition when they calvethough. I am going to breed all autumn born heifers so they calve at 21/2 in the spring. Once I have a few more calving in spring I can let a couple skip the autumn breeding and get back to where they need to be. What threw me was the very wet and muddy summer of 2017- I had foot rot and fluke for the first time . No one caught that summer. Part of my issue is that I now have an established client list- I sell them beef, veal, lamb, eggs, garlic,duck and sometimes other poultry. I don’t want them to buy from others and I don’t want to compromise my quality by rushing the finishing, but I have to have some sort of pattern in what I offer. I sell the most beef and I need a stable number of finished animals per year.
 

Sharpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Their all grass finished so unless I measure individual daily intakes there's no way I can cost the calves separately.
All I was wondering was what value of feeding was attached to the mother of the calf and to the calf itself. Obviously you could put the biggest calves away sooner thus saving feed/grass over the smaller ones but you choose to go for more kgs, but you may have more of the smaller ones per acre...... just trying to see the pros and cons.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
All I was wondering was what value of feeding was attached to the mother of the calf and to the calf itself. Obviously you could put the biggest calves away sooner thus saving feed/grass over the smaller ones but you choose to go for more kgs, but you may have more of the smaller ones per acre...... just trying to see the pros and cons.
Yes you could keep more smaller ones per acre but I Ai here so there are costs per cow to consider , where as if you had a bull if he could manage servicing more smaller ones your cost wouldn't change so much.
I think your right there are pros & cons to both.
Also as @Henarar said it depends on your market. I don't think there is much of a market for 10month old Organic Shorthorns where as there's a good market for @Henarar s Belgium Blues but at 15months there's a good market for Shorthorn heifers & a good finished market for Organic Shorthorn steers.
 
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holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
This is going to make me sound cheap after my poor persons course comment but I kind of am cheap :LOL:

Joel was up here doing some talks at the end of last year. I was super excited and even willing to drive into the City :eek::eek: to go see him.

Tickets were $600!!!!

What the actual fudge Joel. For someone trying to market themselves to the small time farmer trying to get established and people trying to make big switches, charging us an arm and then saying "But it's an investment in the future" is bull crap. Especially considering most people would be travelling hours to get to the venues and many would also probably have to find accommodations for the night. All for one talk!

I pay $100 and I get a two day, hands on course, with meals and a multitude of speakers. I've been jaded by it apparently.

If you ever do that Pete, I'll fly over there to flick you in the nose myself.
I received this email today:

IMG_0974.jpg


£1074 for a root cause analysis workshop! :eek::confused:
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
BBC R4 tonight - Inside science programme - earthworms. Short piece for last 10 mins ish but talked about the different worm types and what they do, the negative impact of cultivation, and the positive effect of no-till.
Spoke to a soil scientist and farmer Ian Piggot(?) Which sounded a familiar name - is he on here?
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
BBC R4 tonight - Inside science programme - earthworms. Short piece for last 10 mins ish but talked about the different worm types and what they do, the negative impact of cultivation, and the positive effect of no-till.
Spoke to a soil scientist and farmer Ian Piggot(?) Which sounded a familiar name - is he on here?
I think he writes in the farmers weekly? He might be on here too though I don't know.
 

Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Does anyone still calve at 3 years? I did for years, worrying that my grass/ hay ( no silage ) system required it. I have switched to 2 years but have trouble getting them in calf for round two.
Calve at 2 here. Not too much problem getting them in calf 2nd time around except last summer had a few more than usual empty due to the lack of rain.

For the chat about cow weaning efficiency I haven’t found big cows last any longer than smaller cows and I have no problem with a big cow pulling her weight and I have some that do but on average they don’t.

@Kiwi Pete Kit Pharo is pretty interesting but I still think cow weight doesn’t want to get too small as that will affect your end market unless you are direct marketing where the story and taste sells not so much the size of cut.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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