Farming is part of #thesolution - Series

holwellcourtfarm · May 8, 2019

Clive said:
This is the kind of idea I hoped this would spark ! Brilliant

If you want early access to the rest we have produced to do this let me know and I will email them you

Thanks Clive, I may be in touch later.

Edit: just looked online and a colour banner 1.2 x 2.4 M printed on heavy PVC (Oh, the irony, printing an environmental message on a plastic product

) for £40 doesn't seem too bad. I couldn't justify printing 11 but I'd stand a couple.

JP1 · May 8, 2019

watcher72 said:
View attachment 796316
Net assets risen by over 40% need somewhere to spend that dosh?

On the grassland point isn't a road side verge a great home supporting a wide range of flora and fauna as well? Mind you having seen how they have cleared around some of the motorway and major road embankments this spring out BPS would have been taken away from us for destruction of habitats! Shame they cant do the same for the ragwort!

Major selling point of grassland is utilizing land that can not grow crops for human consumption, capturing carbon and giving soil life a boost without then need for destroying their habitat once a year for the sake of an arable crop. I would also add that digestors are probably the most intensive of all cropping. Constant earth moving to grow fast growing energy intensive crops such as maize, beet and nutrient hungry grasses.

Book called the Death of grass I read at school really opened my eyes as to how reliant we are on grass on this planet!

Posting just as a TFFer, it's a free Forum unlike the compulsory AHDB levy on my lambs and cattle.

Wrong target completely in my book.

In fact that "dosh" hardly looks enough for any software upgrades let alone server space etc

Clive · May 8, 2019

watcher72 said:
View attachment 796316
Net assets risen by over 40% need somewhere to spend that dosh?

On the grassland point isn't a road side verge a great home supporting a wide range of flora and fauna as well? Mind you having seen how they have cleared around some of the motorway and major road embankments this spring out BPS would have been taken away from us for destruction of habitats! Shame they cant do the same for the ragwort!

Major selling point of grassland is utilizing land that can not grow crops for human consumption, capturing carbon and giving soil life a boost without then need for destroying their habitat once a year for the sake of an arable crop. I would also add that digestors are probably the most intensive of all cropping. Constant earth moving to grow fast growing energy intensive crops such as maize, beet and nutrient hungry grasses.

Book called the Death of grass I read at school really opened my eyes as to how reliant we are on grass on this planet!

TFF is a business - it employs and provides a living for the people who run it while providing a FREE service for farmers to use. We make no secret of that

We have no mandate or obligation to promote Uk ag, no one pays us to do that. We have funded design of these banners and invested our time and expect no return

It doesn’t make anyone lot of money, it gets by and is sustainable, the reserves we currently have are enough to keep things running and fund development for the next 12 months, any less than that would be to tight for my liking and I’m certainly not going to fund a website for others from my own pocket - that said TFF has cost me more to date that I have ever had back out of it

The NFU and AHDB are not free for farmers, they are extremely well funded organisations that exist to promote and help Uk farmers ... the NFU has 128 million in current assets, you would think they were slightly better placed than TFF to print a few banners if that’s what you want.

A simple free retweet would be a start however !

yellowbelly · May 8, 2019

Clive said:
We have no agenda other than to help us farmers do something to help themselves

That's the key - the time has come for farming to fight back. No one else is going to do it for us because they all see us as an easy target. We are isolated businesses with no strong 'voice' on our side.

There are plenty of slogans and images we could be using - e.g. "If you want to criticise farmers, don't talk with your mouth full" etc
@JP1 put up this, on another thread the other day...

Another one.....

Our stand at this year's Open Farm Sunday will certainly be showing off the new TFF images.

Clive · May 8, 2019

holwellcourtfarm said:
Thanks Clive, I may be in touch later.

Edit: just looked online and a colour banner 1.2 x 2.4 M printed on heavy PVC (Oh, the irony, printing an environmental message on a plastic product ) for £40 doesn't seem too bad. I couldn't justify printing 11 but I'd stand a couple.

Maybe start a crowd fuming campaign to raise money to print lots ?

There are crowd funding websites that can help set that up easy if anyone wants to organise it ?

I would but I’m afraid I just don’t have any spare time right now

Muddyroads · May 8, 2019

Wolds Beef said:
@Clive Does AHDB have a voice on the forum? The NFU does in our friend Guy Smith. Do we tag him and see if he would join in with NFU sponsoring the banners or even part sponsor's. After all Minette is a big believer in producing quality cattle!! Let's get the rest of the ag world involved in a fight back!! After all it will benefit us all.
WB

County shows and the like would be nice and could raise the profile of TFF but they would largely be preaching to the converted. They should be on city buses, tube adverts and in school information packs. This has to be where AHDB and the NFU come in surely? The hard work has been done for them!

watcher72 · May 8, 2019

Clive said:
It doesn’t make anyone lot of money, it gets by and is sustainable, the reserves we currently have are enough to keep things running and fund development for the next 12 months, any less than that would be to tight for my liking and I’m certainly not going to fund a website for others from my own pocket - that said TFF has cost me more to date that I have ever had back out of it

The NFU and AHDB are not free for farmers, they are extremely well funded organisations that exist to promote and help Uk farmers ... the NFU has 128 million in current assets, you would think they were slightly better placed than TFF to print a few banners if that’s what you want.

I've seen plenty of tweets and posts on various social media from TFF tables at awards ceremonies so it cant be all bad can it?

As for the time you have put into TFF for free, there are hundreds of grass roots farmers who put time into the NFU for no return. Organising meetings , gauging opinions and promoting UK ag PLC for the good of all. As for the historic assets of the NFU, you don't sell the family silver to pay for the running of a business. When you see an asset base in cash terms increasing then that IS profiteering!

Back on topic,

yellowbelly said:
.

A poor example IMHO, that was extensive existent farming not farming for profi we see today across the western world.

Clive · May 8, 2019

watcher72 said:
I've seen plenty of tweets and posts on various social media from TFF tables at awards ceremonies so it cant be all bad can it?

As for the time you have put into TFF for free, there are hundreds of grass roots farmers who put time into the NFU for no return. Organising meetings , gauging opinions and promoting UK ag PLC for the good of all. As for the historic assets of the NFU, you don't sell the family silver to pay for the running of a business. When you see an asset base in cash terms increasing then that IS profiteering!

Back on topic,

A poor example IMHO, that was extensive existent farming not farming for profi we see today across the western world.

I've not just put time into TFF over the years - I've personally put in a LOT of money to make TFF happen - far more that I have had out of it so far

Of course we are at award ceremonies, shows and etc. we don't pay to go - we get paid to promote such events on here - that's what puts the money in to keep the website free for farmers to use, pay the wages, hosting and development

no one is getting rich from it .............. unfortunately !

As I say our small financial reserves won't go very far or last long, but we don't have a 18mill wage bill to pay every year either I guess like the NFU does

we could instead charge farmers a membership fee like the NFU do - or ask for mandate to collect a compulsory levy from you instead................... I reckon I could achieve a lot with 80mil a year in subs but I would rather not have to ask

I'm sorry if us doing something to try and help upsets you, we don't have to do any of this but we chose to because we care deeply about the future of our industry, TFF is unashamedly a business , it has to be to exist, but its also a lot more than that to everyone that works behind the scenes to keep it going

Post like yours really highlight the divisive attitude in UK ag, no other purpose than to shite stir and divide - its no wonder we have no effective voice when we cant even help each other to help ourselves

Interesting you choose to not post as the username most members will know you as, the rules on dual accounts are clear

Wolds Beef · May 8, 2019

Is anyone on here that has influence on a AHDB Board or the like? If so please identify yourselves, even if you lurk in the shadows! It would help the whole industry after all, as arable farms are producing feed for Livestock farms! As @Clive has said it is for the whole industry. Our levy and subscription money could be put to very good use. After all it is OUR Money!!
WB

Clive · May 8, 2019

Wolds Beef said:
Is anyone on here that has influence on a AHDB Board or the like? If so please identify yourselves, even if you lurk in the shadows! It would help the whole industry after all, as arable farms are producing feed for Livestock farms! As @Clive has said it is for the whole industry. Our levy and subscription money could be put to very good use. After all it is OUR Money!!
WB

The AHDB Dairy twitter account have retweeted one of the infographics this morning

would be nice to see all their other departments and accounts on board as well however - numbers count !

The NFU and its officers are still conspicuous in their absence however other than NFU Scotland and various regional offices

Both AHDB and NFU have produced infiographics in the past that we have always retweeted and Facebook etc through various accounts we run to get them see by as many as possible.

There should be unity when ever anything positive about Farming is on social media and agendas / internal politics etc should be pleased to one side

JP1 · May 8, 2019

Wolds Beef said:
Is anyone on here that has influence on a AHDB Board or the like? If so please identify yourselves, even if you lurk in the shadows! It would help the whole industry after all, as arable farms are producing feed for Livestock farms! As @Clive has said it is for the whole industry. Our levy and subscription money could be put to very good use. After all it is OUR Money!!
WB

Not sure if Adam Quinney's on here? We follow each other on FB and Twitter. Graphics not shared as yet ................

holwellcourtfarm · May 8, 2019

https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef/c...bYwNSGbfhAJSkuDb20kMtOHmmOFYpKynSqG8c76VYwe5M

Some more interesting material to use in banners.

yellowbelly · May 8, 2019

watcher72 said:
A poor example IMHO, that was extensive existent farming not farming for profi we see today across the western world.

Well, maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
One thing's for sure, everybody - yes, everybody, has existed for a hell of a long time due to the fact that some bloke (or woman) somewhere has put a seed in the ground or looked after an animal so he and somebody else can eat.

Now, I'm not saying that the world and his brother owes us a living but a bit of respect wouldn't go amiss instead of all the farmer bashing that goes on nowadays.

A week or two with empty bellies might make some of the complainers sing a different tune.

Wolds Beef · May 8, 2019

Just another random thought, does anyone know anyone who is a member of the LAA (Livestock Auctioneers Association) They would have as much to gain as anyone!!
WB

holwellcourtfarm · May 8, 2019

Clive said:
This is the kind of idea I hoped this would spark ! Brilliant

If you want early access to the rest we have produced to do this let me know and I will email them you

I've emailed the show's livestock organiser and had a supportive reply but she's had to pass it up to the show executive for a decision. Watch this space.....

holwellcourtfarm · May 8, 2019

Wolds Beef said:
Just another random thought, does anyone know anyone who is a member of the LAA (Livestock Auctioneers Association) They would have as much to gain as anyone!!
WB

Banners up outside every livestock mart, many of which are in towns.

pear · May 8, 2019

holwellcourtfarm said:
Thanks Clive, I may be in touch later.

Edit: just looked online and a colour banner 1.2 x 2.4 M printed on heavy PVC (Oh, the irony, printing an environmental message on a plastic product ) for £40 doesn't seem too bad. I couldn't justify printing 11 but I'd stand a couple.

I’d happily stump up for a couple (for Herts Show too and then have them back!) to stick on the farm driveway which is a major footpath and also roadside verge on entrance to our village.

Tom_o_m · May 8, 2019

I'm consciously playing devil's advocate here.

The arguments will be that biodiversity and the greater carbon absorption capability in forests is being lost in places like Brazil to make way for cattle grazing. Of more relevance to UK farming is intensive and non grass fed livestock farming which produces more damaging gasses (especially US style grain fed cattle) without the mitigants you outline in your posters.

I think there is a danger in overselling, we don't want media outlets castigating these.

I'm not trying to be critical, just a bit cautious.

Regards

Tom

Blaithin · May 8, 2019

Tom_o_m said:
I'm consciously playing devil's advocate here.

The arguments will be that biodiversity and the greater carbon absorption capability in forests is being lost in places like Brazil to make way for cattle grazing. Of more relevance to UK farming is intensive and non grass fed livestock farming which produces more damaging gasses (especially US style grain fed cattle) without the mitigants you outline in your posters.

I think there is a danger in overselling, we don't want media outlets castigating these.

I'm not trying to be critical, just a bit cautious.

Regards

Tom

There’s been studies done here that show our grasslands sequester more than our forests do, and we have a lot of forests. It seems to be an old myth that forests absorb more than grasslands. Not saying go knock down all the forests by any means, but people who say forests sequester more (or even have more diversity*) are simply repeating what they’ve heard. These infographics will give them access to hearing something a bit more accurate than Veggie Propaganda. Even if it is meat propaganda

*I also recall some studies that say native prairie grassland can and does have more biodiversity/life than even the amazon rainforest. Again, not a fact most have even run into as the amazon seems to be a pinnacle on a pedestal.

Tom_o_m · May 8, 2019

Blaithin said:
There’s been studies done here that show our grasslands sequester more than our forests do, and we have a lot of forests. It seems to be an old myth that forests absorb more than grasslands. Not saying go knock down all the forests by any means, but people who say forests sequester more (or even have more diversity*) are simply repeating what they’ve heard. These infographics will give them access to hearing something a bit more accurate than Veggie Propaganda. Even if it is meat propaganda

*I also recall some studies that say native prairie grassland can and does have more biodiversity/life than even the amazon rainforest. Again, not a fact most have even run into as the amazon seems to be a pinnacle on a pedestal.

I really don't think it is credible to claim that bulldozing rainforest to grow grass for cattle is a benefit in terms of carbon capture. It simply isn't. As I alluded to, this isn't relevant to the UK and our forests are simply not of the same value, but globally we are probably a minority.

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