Beyond belief

manhill · May 20, 2019

As above, Radio4's program in its usual imbalanced discussion about Vegens.
I caught a bit of it. Consisted I think of 3 or 4 Vegens and one sympathiser.
All making various cases for their creed and it's place in their respective religions and beliefs.
What really annoyed me was one naive female spouting about the cruelty in livestock farming.
Why does no one make the case that there would be no farm livestock existing if we all gave up meat and dairy? We bring cattle into the world and they get two summers enjoying their freedom before they have to make way for the newer calves,and so the cycle goes on. What's better, to have no existence or to have a shortened life and also provide food for us?
I think she needs a good injection of meat to get her mind on sensible things!

Tim G · May 20, 2019

manhill said:
As above, Radio4's program in its usual imbalanced discussion about Vegens.
I caught a bit of it. Consisted I think of 3 or 4 Vegens and one sympathiser.
All making various cases for their creed and it's place in their respective religions and beliefs.
What really annoyed me was one naive female spouting about the cruelty in livestock farming.
Why does no one make the case that there would be no farm livestock existing if we all gave up meat and dairy? We bring cattle into the world and they get two summers enjoying their freedom before they have to make way for the newer calves,and so the cycle goes on. What's better, to have no existence or to have a shortened life and also provide food for us?
I think she needs a good injection of meat to get her mind on sensible things!

Unfortunately that's exactly what die hard vegans want, no animals.

borderterribles · May 20, 2019

manhill said:
As above, Radio4's program in its usual imbalanced discussion about Vegens.
I caught a bit of it. Consisted I think of 3 or 4 Vegens and one sympathiser.
All making various cases for their creed and it's place in their respective religions and beliefs.
What really annoyed me was one naive female spouting about the cruelty in livestock farming.
Why does no one make the case that there would be no farm livestock existing if we all gave up meat and dairy? We bring cattle into the world and they get two summers enjoying their freedom before they have to make way for the newer calves,and so the cycle goes on. What's better, to have no existence or to have a shortened life and also provide food for us?
I think she needs a good injection of meat to get her mind on sensible things!

Awwww! You were doing so well until the last couple of lines, lol

manhill · May 20, 2019

borderterribles said:
Awwww! You were doing so well until the last couple of lines, lol

Nothing like meat to put hairs on your chest!

Werzle · May 20, 2019

I thought we had agreed a 'We dont give a sh#t ' when it comes to vegan news

primmiemoo · May 20, 2019

@manhill , R4 broadcast the antidote on You and Yours early this afternoon. It's available to listen to from the BBC Radio 4 website.

A very sensible and straight item about the importance of livestock in food production, and how livestock farming is ensuring carbon sequestration in Britain.

A serious

to the Oxfordshire farmer interviewed in field, and another

to the farming representative in the studio.

Sounds like Beyond Belief is behind the times this time.

manhill · May 20, 2019

Can't win today, first clue in crossword is 'vegetarian' !

topground · May 20, 2019

manhill said:
Can't win today, first clue in crossword is 'vegetarian' !

Is the answer two words? eating disorder

manhill · May 20, 2019

They couldn't even come up with a term for someone who eats meat and veg. What's wrong with omnivore, isn't that what we are after all?

JennBags · May 20, 2019

I have a vegetarian acquaintance (verging on the vegan) and have had this conversation with her before. She admires the lambs in the fields and then says how sad it makes her that they live such short lives. I explain that if we didn't eat meat, there wouldn't be any lambs at all, and they've had a lovely life running around the fields. She doesn't think that a short life is better than no life at all (but is happy to use leather products for her horse, hypocritical much?). Also doesn't believe that there wouldn't be any livestock and ignores the fact that all fields would be turned over for crops.

kiwi pom · May 20, 2019

The first thing to remember is the media isn't there to inform and have balanced views, they are there to make money, which they do through, readers, listeners, clicks and shares etc. Their policy works too, the op has drawn attention to the show.
Being Vegan is one of the latest trends or beliefs out there and with all these things people believe what they want and ignore the bits they don't like.
Nothing wrong with it really, do what you want, have your opinion.
Where we have to be careful is when it can harm others, vegans putting infants on vegan diets, anti-vaxxers not immunising children, using homeopathic remedies on children instead of going to the doctor etc.
As long as no ones harmed by it, so what, believe what you want.
There's people making lots of money out of vegans, just like there's plenty of farmers making money out of people who believe organic produce is somehow better for them.
If people are rich enough to spend more money on their fads, let them do it.

abitdaft · May 20, 2019

Maybe we should be coming at this from a different angle in regards to fighting back ( won't help the dairy girls and boys, sorry), but we are a suckler hill farm and had someone here at the weekend asking questions about the longevity of our cattle, they were under the illusion that they had a really short life, when I pointed out old " pain in the arse " who is 17 and has a calf at foot they were dumbfounded, it's time we started pointing out individuals on farms rather than general or averages. We have quite a few " old dears" still performing well in both the beef and sheep front. As long as they are still capable and show no signs of losing ability or quality( or teeth ) we give them a chance. The oldest cow we have here with an impeccable record has calved every year and raised every calf bar one is 17 years old and looks younger than one poor doing heifer that we have, she has had 15 calves and lost one. We have to look at different ways of showing what we do. The current way of " we put food on your table " is not working! If people want enviro, sustainable, friendly, whatever......then that is what we have to provide, if we don't WE are not going to be sustainable for much longer. We can all talk about folks going hungry and that will teach them a lesson, truth is as I see it, it will be us doing the learning.

kfpben · May 21, 2019

abitdaft said:
Maybe we should be coming at this from a different angle in regards to fighting back ( won't help the dairy girls and boys, sorry), but we are a suckler hill farm and had someone here at the weekend asking questions about the longevity of our cattle, they were under the illusion that they had a really short life, when I pointed out old " pain in the arse " who is 17 and has a calf at foot they were dumbfounded, it's time we started pointing out individuals on farms rather than general or averages. We have quite a few " old dears" still performing well in both the beef and sheep front. As long as they are still capable and show no signs of losing ability or quality( or teeth ) we give them a chance. The oldest cow we have here with an impeccable record has calved every year and raised every calf bar one is 17 years old and looks younger than one poor doing heifer that we have, she has had 15 calves and lost one. We have to look at different ways of showing what we do. The current way of " we put food on your table " is not working! If people want enviro, sustainable, friendly, whatever......then that is what we have to provide, if we don't WE are not going to be sustainable for much longer. We can all talk about folks going hungry and that will teach them a lesson, truth is as I see it, it will be us doing the learning.

There’s a surprising number of 10+ year old dairy cows out there.

glasshouse · May 21, 2019

JennBags said:
I have a vegetarian acquaintance (verging on the vegan) and have had this conversation with her before. She admires the lambs in the fields and then says how sad it makes her that they live such short lives. I explain that if we didn't eat meat, there wouldn't be any lambs at all, and they've had a lovely life running around the fields. She doesn't think that a short life is better than no life at all (but is happy to use leather products for her horse, hypocritical much?). Also doesn't believe that there wouldn't be any livestock and ignores the fact that all fields would be turned over for crops.

Her fat ass sat on a horse making it trot about sweating like red rum, fecking cruel or what?

Courier · May 21, 2019

Tim G said:
Unfortunately that's exactly what die hard vegans want, no animals.

But they expect "Organically Produced" vegetables............

Gulli · May 21, 2019

manhill said:
As above, Radio4's program in its usual imbalanced discussion about Vegens.
I caught a bit of it. Consisted I think of 3 or 4 Vegens and one sympathiser.
All making various cases for their creed and it's place in their respective religions and beliefs.
What really annoyed me was one naive female spouting about the cruelty in livestock farming.
Why does no one make the case that there would be no farm livestock existing if we all gave up meat and dairy? We bring cattle into the world and they get two summers enjoying their freedom before they have to make way for the newer calves,and so the cycle goes on. What's better, to have no existence or to have a shortened life and also provide food for us?
I think she needs a good injection of meat to get her mind on sensible things!

Plenty would argue that no life is better than a short miserable life

Still Farming · May 21, 2019

Courier said:
But they expect "Organically Produced" vegetables............

Or "foreign ' imported fruit and veg that are outside the Approved Chemicals safe list for use ?
Healthy????

lazy farmer · May 21, 2019

Not quite 17....yet

manhill · May 21, 2019

Gulli said:
Plenty would argue that no life is better than a short miserable life

maybe, but the only time my cattle aren't happy is when I'm taking too long to give them their treats.If farming equated to miserable animals,I'd pack it in.

manhill · May 21, 2019

lazy farmer said:
View attachment 800918 Not quite 17....yet

27 April 2004 and she's due to calve today by the look of her.

Beyond belief

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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