Glyphosate ..... adjuvant ??

ollie989898 · May 24, 2019

tw15 said:
True it is not cheap as you say . Price ain't everything its the job it does is what matters as well as costs . It really helps get the glyphosate into waxy leaves as well as lowering ph of water . Has crossed my mind I could probably cut glyphosate a little bit to help reduce cost a bit say around 1/2 lt ha less on situations where you would be using higher rates but being mindful on the lower rates as not to cut back too much .

I used to routinely cut rates on stubbles. There is no need to use glyphosate at full rates all the time. Thats bad for the environment.

Full rate glyphosate will kill a full blown grass ley. Some weeds in a stubble dont even need half rate if it is applied properly.

tw15 · May 24, 2019

Usually use 2lts-( 2.5 lts if bad and large weeds) on stubbles and full rate on grass destruction .

ollie989898 · May 24, 2019

tw15 said:
Usually use 2lts-( 2.5 lts if bad and large weeds) on stubbles and full rate on grass destruction .

The label normally gives concise guidance. Some products are superior to others and will show much better efficacy than others. In your situation I would use glyfos dakar without hesitation.

Brisel · May 24, 2019

ollie989898 said:
Im sure you can buy validate better than the progreen website. You can buy it in 5L cans for a start.

Yes - that was only a quick Google search for a Validate label.

Brisel · May 24, 2019

tw15 said:
Usually use 2lts-( 2.5 lts if bad and large weeds) on stubbles and full rate on grass destruction .

2 litres is ok on small cereal volunteers if you have treated the water. I normally use around 3 and more for perennial weeds or in winter on big waxy cover crops.

ollie989898 · May 24, 2019

I've used a variety of products and seem some spectacular failures as well.

I would stick with products you know and trust backed by a half decent and reliable manufacturer and avoid buying bargain basement stuff or whatever the MVF offer of the month is.

I used to use a variety of differing concentrations according to what fit the can sizes best.

You won't go far wrong with De Sangosse adjuvants. It's good stuff that does what it says on the can.

Hilly · May 26, 2019

ollie989898 said:
Rosate is pants. I wouldnt bother with it. Sooner pay 2 quid a can more for something decent.

Ive recommended or witnessed the use of a myriad of glyphosate products on everything from a full blown crop of wheat to permenant grass with spearthistles 4 feet high.

Best to stick with recognised brands.

De Sangosse make a fine range of adjuvants. Use Li700 or Validate. Job done. No guessing or messing.

cheers , i shall trry that this year.

ollie989898 · May 26, 2019

Hilly said:
cheers , i shall trry that this year.

I cant remember the rates to use. There is no need exceed them, I once had a client who used up what was left in the can when spraying off grass and it went orange in about two days.

Woodlander · May 28, 2019

Andy26 said:
How did you get on with Li700, draw any conclusions?

Sorry for the delay replying. I did a trial with three glyphosate rates,(2.5 l/ha, 3l/ha and 3.5l/ha) all with no adjuvant/conditioner, all with Li700, and all with Li700 + X-change. So nine different treatments. The main target was volunteer OSR and cranesbill. It was applied 10-14 days before drilling. My observations were that the Li700 gave better control at the lower glyphosate rates. The higher rates were sufficient on their own, but the Li700 gave a speedier kill across all rates. I've noticed that the new tallow amine free glyphosate formulations are far slower to show symptoms whereas the inclusion of Li700 really speeds things up. I personally saw no benefit of adding X-change to the Li700. The Li700 was giving sufficient water conditioning in my situation. Hope this helps.

Brisel · May 28, 2019

Thanks for sharing your results

How much does Li700 cost these days? Validate is a slightly different formulation & was £10.39/l recently.

How hard is your water @Woodlander ? If it's mains your local supplier has to publish the analysis on their website.

Andy26 · May 28, 2019

Brisel said:
How much does Li700 cost these days?

£31 for 5 litres, so £6.20/litre, usually rate of use for glyphosate is 0.25%.

So £1.55/ha @100 l/ha.

Andy26 · May 28, 2019

Woodlander said:
Sorry for the delay replying. I did a trial with three glyphosate rates,(2.5 l/ha, 3l/ha and 3.5l/ha) all with no adjuvant/conditioner, all with Li700, and all with Li700 + X-change. So nine different treatments. The main target was volunteer OSR and cranesbill. It was applied 10-14 days before drilling. My observations were that the Li700 gave better control at the lower glyphosate rates. The higher rates were sufficient on their own, but the Li700 gave a speedier kill across all rates. I've noticed that the new tallow amine free glyphosate formulations are far slower to show symptoms whereas the inclusion of Li700 really speeds things up. I personally saw no benefit of adding X-change to the Li700. The Li700 was giving sufficient water conditioning in my situation. Hope this helps.

Thanks @Woodlander very useful to read, I've been using Li700 for a few years but only on the hunch it was helping.

Brisel · May 28, 2019

Some slides on Li700 from the Adjuvant Academy with DeSangosse I did thanks to @drummer_bruhaha I was there with @Rob Holmes and @BenB

I'm guessing this is why Validate is more expensive - it has more adjuvants built in.

ollie989898 · May 28, 2019

As I understood it validate was just like LI700 but does not seem to have any proprionic acid in it- it certainly does not smell as whiffy.

Li700 was/is an excellent product in my experience, acidifier, drift retardant and penetrating agent in one and I would agree that it seems to get products working a lot faster. I never added x-change to it if Li700 was in the tank anyway.

I've only ever used sil-wet with residual herbicides and was generally impressed with the results from it.

I only ever used drill if I needed an MSO, another excellent product.

Pay attention to the labels on these things, I can't for the life of me remember which way around they are supposed to be added to the tank, I could be completely wrong but I thought Li700 was supposed to go in first. Validate etc may be completely different.

Brisel · May 28, 2019

Adjuvants normally go in last, like your oils. Water conditioners need to go in first or the cation lockup will have happened by the time you've rinsed your last glyphosate can and got the top off the Li700/Validate

ollie989898 · May 28, 2019

Brisel said:
Adjuvants normally go in last, like your oils. Water conditioners need to go in first or the cation lockup will have happened by the time you've rinsed your last glyphosate can and got the top off the Li700/Validate

But in this case the Li700 is acting as a water conditioner. Shouldn't it then go in first?

Woodlander · May 28, 2019

Brisel said:
Thanks for sharing your results How much does Li700 cost these days? Validate is a slightly different formulation & was £10.39/l recently.

How hard is your water @Woodlander ? If it's mains your local supplier has to publish the analysis on their website.

View attachment 803566

I'm not as hard as you @Brisel!!

Severn trent class us as a hard water area with a Clarke Degrees of 17.79, French Degrees 25.42 and German Degrees of 14.24. De Sangosse pregnancy test strips (water hardness test strips) always turn all bars purple!

I use Li 700 at 0.25% and apply glyphosate at a water volume of 100l/ha so 0.25l/ha. The last price I paid was £6.75/l. Before using Li700, I used 0.25l/ha X-change @ £4.10/l. The last quote I had for Validate was £8/l with the same inclusion rate as Li700.

Woodlander · May 28, 2019

PS always add li700 or Validate in first

Glyphosate ..... adjuvant ??

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