"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

holwellcourtfarm · May 31, 2019

Karliboy said:
Went checking on the pizza slices tonight.
The right side got grazed on 9th May on a dampish day (3 weeks recovery)the left on the 19th May this only got rain this Monday just gone even though I left extra cover on it? I think now I should have taken it tighter down to encourage new growth its struggled with the dry spell we have had.
View attachment 804556
The track back to water is recovering better than expected.
View attachment 804558
23 days recovery below from the first slice below.
View attachment 804560
Hopefully another 20 days before I need it again.
Can’t see no clover yet from the dressing I gave it.

Need to get this into bales now ASAP it’s looking a little flat and sorry for itself. I would have done it last week but farm track was closed due to new concrete being laid View attachment 804568

I'm seeing some interesting recovery in one field on the line of last year's water access lane which got truly hammered. So far this year the mobile water trough system seems to be working well. Next spring will show whether putting it on the weak spots in various cells produces real benefits.

It'd be hard to do our way on your slopes though

. I'd have to redesign the tank to be self-leveling, something I did consider.

Karliboy · May 31, 2019

I agree with what you guys are saying. (Grass grows Grass)
In the first days of this field I scoffed about75% but was leaving green in the stem and leaf. The last 2 days I scoffed approx 50% as a experiment to see how it grew back and by the time I had got there it was fairly overgrown. I think it would have been better to try and maybe get more trample on the standing waste to stimulate growth as it was more or less over grown stalk but that is easier said than done.
As said it’s a experiment to see what happens in my environment. I have my pics to look back on for evidence. In another months time.
The whole cell grazing /strip grazing is all new to me this last 12 months and I can see how it works. It’s causing me some headaches with water planning and field layouts. but I’ve got some ideas for that in the future.

ShooTa · May 31, 2019

A few images of the flock - doing some heavy grouping in this field to spice things up before they get more space on sat,
getting some nice trample..
then theres my drought reserve/resting grasses - not sure they should be up to my waist.
Last image is from a farm i went to see the other day.. supposedly down to 4cm...

GreenerGrass · May 31, 2019

@Kiwi Pete re: weaning. I've always been relaxed about it, but because I leave the ram lambs entire I aim about 3-4 months, as they are fertile little scamps. Previous years I've left ewe lambs with the ewes in a mob. The ram lambs in separate mob, they head for fields that have been cut for hay, would be about 30% of farm, and seems to work OK. Those fields haven't been grazed properly in a long time (and don't have water infrastructure). I think I am seeing better grass now after one year of limited grazing management, but it is near a town and I am quite uncomfortable leaving sheep in there. Otherwise it would have been more properly incorporated into the rotational grazing with whole farm strategy. It's not ideal!!

Great photos @ShooTa . Last photo looks smart for those looking over hedge, but overgrazed according to posts above and I think what you are hinting at? I think Savory said - most of the problem with overgrazing is not what is left, but how long they are on there for. I guess if they did that in one day it wouldn't be so bad, provided it has a very long recovery? Bit embarrassed to show what my sheep are in at the minute. Real long stuff. Quite pleased with how they have trampled it, some rain has helped. Not sure if doing right thing or not. Maybe should have taken for hay. But got caught out last year by cutting too much ground. So erring on the side of caution this time. It's a lot further and more headed!! Looking forward to getting onto more 'normal' paddocks in a fortnight. Although by then they could be the same! Decided to top strips for electric wire as just using wheel tracks is earthing a lot. Also can be an experiment to see how that ground does when mown. Ewes just started eating thistles and nettles - I think this is time of the year, as they are not short of grass, although maybe not as palatable as could be if more leafy.

Kiwi Pete · May 31, 2019

holwellcourtfarm said:
I DARE YOU to post a copy once you have it, along with a summary of your last annual accounts, on BF's "most profitable sucker cow breed" thread

We don't run a sucker operation, here

He left the most obvious breed for profit off the list: Friesian!!

That's how I know he isn't really serious.

Basically the end result of the last report suggested that the uplift in soil C and the leap in available nutrients on their soil samples likely involved an inflow of carbon in excess of 2T/ha, by their reckoning our net gains were between 2.5 and 3.5kgCO2 per kilo of meat out the gate.
However I was doing a bit of extra tractorwork that year, this season we should be around 30 minutes per acre, which is much less to offset; and any tillage will also be much reduced, I grew 6 ac of peas and that was quite a costly (carbon-wise) thing to be doing.

As for the suckers and their cows, Boss left the most profitable breed off the list so I couldn't tick the box: Friesian!!

I bet friesian cows make more people in the UK money than any other.

ShooTa · May 31, 2019

@greengrass - cheers - and dont be shy showing whats being grazed - it can be a learning tool/conversation - some of my fields are truly shoking - wait until the thistles get going here... its embarassing... and dear ol dad starts itching to top or weedwipe........ i toped 2/3 of a field to show him the difference... so we will see whats happened with it since last year,.

edit
re weaning - we didnt last year (we ring all our ramlambs) but this year with a huge number of pedigree ram lambs i chose to leave everything whole - so ill be running a double mob..not quite sure how yet...

Henarar · May 31, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
As for the suckers and their cows, Boss left the most profitable breed off the list so I couldn't tick the box: Friesian!! I bet friesian cows make more people in the UK money than any other.

TBO its a odd question as a lot of suck cows are cross bred anyway all ours are bar the ped blues

jonnyjon · May 31, 2019

Sheila Cooke said:
@Karliboy thank you for sharing your photos. Looks like you're learning lots. You mentioned the idea of grazing it down low to stimulate growth. Actually, it's the opposite. You want to graze it high to reduce the recovery time. Especially at this fast-growing time of year, you want to get round your whole farm quickly. You're right that the grazing stimulates growth, but taking it short saps the life out of the grass. Grazing it tall is much better.

I'm confused, all the conventional wisdom, and research, says that if paddocks are not "grazed out" the grass quality will suffer the next time round, how do you control/ prevent ending up with a lot, or little, of poor quality course grass giving poor weight gain??

ShooTa · May 31, 2019

... just been listening to this - Ep 1 2nd 1/2 ... https://www.teagasc.ie/animals/sheep/ovicast-sheep-podcast/
@almost exactly what @jonnyjon is bringing up./

onesiedale · May 31, 2019

These babies are just at fence training school. Currently got about 80% pass rate. Hope to have them all trained by next week then they can venture out onto some real summer grazing

. . . up on the hill behind this lot.

onesiedale · May 31, 2019

jonnyjon said:
I'm confused, all the conventional wisdom, and research, says that if paddocks are not "grazed out" the grass quality will suffer the next time round, how do you control/ prevent ending up with a lot, or little, of poor quality course grass giving poor weight gain??

I think that's the message that we all have difficulty getting our heads round, especially if you look at grass quality vs milk production, and the paradigm out there is still that grazed grass grows grass.
This year though I am disciplining the heifers well and leaving larger residuals. It will be interesting to see how it performs into mid summer and beyond.

onesiedale · May 31, 2019

This weekend we are putting the milkers in onto this . Measured at 5000kg/ha

I'd be blackballed from discussion group if they knew!
We'll see what it looks like Monday.

Treg · May 31, 2019

jonnyjon said:
I'm confused, all the conventional wisdom, and research, says that if paddocks are not "grazed out" the grass quality will suffer the next time round, how do you control/ prevent ending up with a lot, or little, of poor quality course grass giving poor weight gain??

All feeds have a paper value but don't always live up to that value, a bit like chelated minerals can have the same value as normal minerals but can be absorbed better .
So although the grass may look/ seem poorer quality it maybe in a easier to digest form.
Also part of the point is to extend the grazing season ( as Kp keeps saying, not taking everything out the bank account in may ) , so by not over grazing there will be a decent amount next time round graze rather than getting less & less through the summer.
Your also looking after the root system so the plant should be healthier through out the season which in turn will lead to healthier stock.
Hope that makes sense :scratchhead:

, I'm learning too.

hendrebc · May 31, 2019

onesiedale said:
View attachment 804796
This weekend we are putting the milkers in onto this . Measured at 5000kg/ha
I'd be blackballed from discussion group if they knew!
We'll see what it looks like Monday.

The cows will tell you what it's like by what and how much is in your bulk tank that's the great thing about dairy. Let us know if you can please

I bet if the results are good it will cause some upset at your discussion group too

ShooTa · May 31, 2019

Indeed - wrapping heads around ionfo that mostly comes from cattle grazing it and then doing mental gymnastics to put into sheep terms is interesting... 4cm -8cm sheep grazing when ive got grass ahead that in some cases is heading at waist height is very disconcerting ...mainly due to being able to almost have faith that your doing the right thing for the animals.

Blaithin · Jun 1, 2019

Not sure I would ever call Holsteins a suckler cow. They’re too labour intensive for that.

Nurse cows yes, and they can turn a profit there.

Suckler cows and you’d be in line for a disaster.

Blaithin · Jun 1, 2019

I’m currently fighting the annual battle of rotation. Especially this time of year when I know to move the herd fast.

I only want to graze so much off, but if I rotate them through too fast I end up not having a very long rest period at all. But the more I graze the longer rest it needs!

Vicious circle

Henarar · Jun 1, 2019

hendrebc said:
The cows will tell you what it's like by what and how much is in your bulk tank that's the great thing about dairy. Let us know if you can please
I bet if the results are good it will cause some upset at your discussion group too

IF its cheaper to produce you don't need so much in the tank

holwellcourtfarm · Jun 1, 2019

Henarar said:
IF its cheaper to produce you don't need so much in the tank

Cost per litre sold is key. That must be why so many UK dairy farmers focus so hard on it... Oh, Hang on...

holwellcourtfarm · Jun 1, 2019

Blaithin said:
I’m currently fighting the annual battle of rotation. Especially this time of year when I know to move the herd fast.

I only want to graze so much off, but if I rotate them through too fast I end up not having a very long rest period at all. But the more I graze the longer rest it needs!

Vicious circle

Subdivision is your best friend...

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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