Next Tory Leader

Derrick Hughes · Jun 8, 2019

neilo said:
Boris also admitted to taking Coke in his youth iirc.

Personally, I think Gove has played a blinder. The ‘news’ was going to come out at some stage, as all skeletons tend to. Far less damaging to do it now, on his terms, rather than have it ‘leaked’ later, if/when he is in the last two. Political gameplay at it’s best.

If Gove gets in they are finished. Hard leave who are switching to the Brexit Party hate him more than May . They need a leader who will put Nigel back in his box as was said this week . I dont care as long as it's a Hard Brexit Person and it's not Gove . I think you underestimate the dislike for him

neilo · Jun 8, 2019

Forage Trader said:
If Gove gets in they are finished. Hard leave who are switching to the Brexit Party hate him more than May . They need a leader who will put Nigel back in his box as was said this week . I dont care as long as it's a Hard Brexit Person and it's not Gove . I think you underestimate the dislike for him

The Conservatives have already suffered enough damage to mean they don’t have a cat in hell’s chance of forming the next government, or even enough friends to be part of a coalition. Red Jez will be in power, but without an outright majority.

Plenty with a real dislike for Blundering Boris within the party ranks too, even if the 1922 Committee decide it won’t be too damaging to put him through to the final two.

Derrick Hughes · Jun 8, 2019

arcobob said:
People take drugs for all sorts of reasons, to relieve pain, to gain popularity, to resolve perceived problems or plain stupidity. All the attributes we should seek in a leader of our government.

I would not have a clue but is not Peer Pressure a 1 Reason which shows a certain weakness does it not

Derrick Hughes · Jun 8, 2019

neilo said:
The Conservatives have already suffered enough damage to mean they don’t have a cat in hell’s chance of forming the next government, or even enough friends to be part of a coalition. Red Jez will be in power, but without an outright majority.

Plenty with a real dislike for Blundering Boris within the party ranks too, even if the 1922 Committee decide it won’t be too damaging to put him through to the final two.

Nothing to do with party ranks . The mass of Conservative voters want out that's why they are voting Brexit Party . A protest vote . If Boris can get them out he will be a born again hero and they will flock back

Hindsight · Jun 8, 2019

arcobob said:
People take drugs for all sorts of reasons, to relieve pain, to gain popularity, to resolve perceived problems or plain stupidity. All the attributes we should seek in a leader of our government.

Excellent reply from the Shires! I will ask my neighbour - card carrying member of the blue rinse brigade!!

neilo · Jun 8, 2019

Forage Trader said:
Nothing to do with party ranks . The mass of Conservative voters want out that's why they are voting Brexit Party . A protest vote . If Boris can get them out he will be a born again hero and they will flock back

The next Conservative leader, and PM for a while, will be decided by the a vote of party members, not the electorate as a whole. All that matters is what party members think of the final two that they are offered by the 1922 committee.
Previously leaders have been elected by virtue of who they are not. John Major only got in because he wasn’t Michael Heseltine, who was seen as a populist choice like Boris, and arguably the best PM that never was (& a strong advocate of Remain now, coincidentally).

Derrick Hughes · Jun 8, 2019

neilo said:
The next Conservative leader, and PM for a while, will be decided by the a vote of party members, not the electorate as a whole. All that matters is what party members think of the final two that they are offered by the 1922 committee.
Previously leaders have been elected by virtue of who they are not. John Major only got in because he wasn’t Michael Heseltine, who was seen as a populist choice like Boris, and arguably the best PM that never was (& a strong advocate of Remain now, coincidentally).

Yes I agree , but are they then blind to what's happening to their voters what did Boris say . Pick me if you want you put Nigel back in his box , if your house is on fire you dont worry if he haven't fed the chickens

Hfd Cattle · Jun 8, 2019

Interesting point ..... if Boris wins through ..Will Gove be in his cabinet after what he did to Boris over the last leadership challenge.
Personally I don't think Boris will win through to the last 2 which I think will be a pity. One of his problems as Foreigh Sec was May kept interfering with the job just like she did with David Davis when he was Brexit Sec and the ones that came after. She gave them a job but still wanted to do it herself. Unfortunately Boris didn't really help his position in it by some of his reactions . I do think though he will be a breath of fresh air if he did win through to PM

nivilla1982 · Jun 8, 2019

Will May stay on as a backbencher for long when the whole process is complete?

Agrivator · Jun 8, 2019

nivilla1982 said:
Will May stay on as a backbencher for long when the whole process is complete?

And will she sit next to Dominic Grieve?

neilo · Jun 8, 2019

Hfd Cattle said:
Interesting point ..... if Boris wins through ..Will Gove be in his cabinet after what he did to Boris over the last leadership challenge.
Personally I don't think Boris will win through to the last 2 which I think will be a pity. One of his problems as Foreigh Sec was May kept interfering with the job just like she did with David Davis when he was Brexit Sec and the ones that came after. She gave them a job but still wanted to do it herself. Unfortunately Boris didn't really help his position in it by some of his reactions . I do think though he will be a breath of fresh air if he did win through to PM

Gove’s Time as Ag minister is up either way I would have thought. In the unlikely event that BJ gets in, he’ll put Gove on the back benches i’d Have thought.
You can’t have someone in your cabinet that you have to keep watching for a dagger. But then, what’s the old saying, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gove being the next one to pick up the poison chalice personally.
After all, what’s a little coke between friends? Cameron survived shagging a pig’s head in his youth becoming public.

Hindsight · Jun 8, 2019

neilo said:
Gove’s Time as Ag minister is up either way I would have thought. In the unlikely event that BJ gets in, he’ll put Gove on the back benches i’d Have thought.
You can’t have someone in your cabinet that you have to keep watching for a dagger. But then, what’s the old saying, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gove being the next one to pick up the poison chalice personally.
After all, what’s a little coke between friends? Cameron survived shagging a pig’s head in his youth becoming public.

Why would he put Gove on the back benches? Or Hammond, Rudd, Gauke etc for that matter. Johnson if he is successful in becoming PM faces the same difficulties within the Tory party and wider in Parliament as May. I appreciate leavers assume if Johnson is elected PM the world has changed and it is No Deal leave come October 31st. Be it by dint of existing legislation or the bizarre 17th Century act of poroguing Parliament per Mr Raab. I am far from convinced that will be the case - which is why August and September are going to be such fun to watch.

neilo · Jun 8, 2019

Hindsight said:
Why would he put Gove on the back benches? Or Hammond, Rudd, Gauke etc for that matter. Johnson if he is successful in becoming PM faces the same difficulties within the Tory party and wider in Parliament as May. I appreciate leavers assume if Johnson is elected PM the world has changed and it is No Deal leave come October 31st. Be it by dint of existing legislation or the bizarre 17th Century act of poroguing Parliament per Mr Raab. I am far from convinced that will be the case - which is why August and September are going to be such fun to watch.

Why? Maybe because he might think that Gove is a slimy, disloyal turncoat that stabbed him in the back the last time he looked like clambering to the top of that particular greasy pole?

Hindsight · Jun 8, 2019

neilo said:
Why? Maybe because he might think that Gove is a slimy, disloyal turncoat that stabbed him in the back the last time he looked like clambering to the top of that particular greasy pole?

So? Ah yes, schoolboy days return. don't pick him for the first fifteen rugger side - that'll teach him. Whatho!

If Johnson is elected as leader and becomes PM he will require a cabinet of great quality to drive through his suggested intention to play hardball with the EU culminating in a no Deal departure on October 31st. He will face many hurdles en route - for example, a possible General Election in face of a vote of no confidence in Parliament.

Gove (and this pains me to say it) is a consummate Parliamentarian who might be able to persuade some, just enough of his colleagues to vote with the government in a No confidence vote. Thus I consider Johnson would be advised to bring Gove into the cabinet in a senior ministerial post.

The current hard right contenders to the leadership seem to consider that the PM has ultimate say - thus the bravado about just sitting it out and going No Deal. But our system is built around collegiate government by Cabinet with the PM first among equals, and Subordinate Parliament with a Governing party with a majority who support their Prime Minister. But as we are witnessing, with much interest, the system does allow for a dominant PM to be challenged and overturned. To those of us interested by constitutional shenagins this is going to be a fun few months to observe.

Hey ho.

Agrivator · Jun 8, 2019

Hindsight said:
So? Ah yes, schoolboy days return. don't pick him for the first fifteen rugger side - that'll teach him. Whatho!

If Johnson is elected as leader and becomes PM he will require a cabinet of great quality to drive through his suggested intention to play hardball with the EU culminating in a no Deal departure on October 31st. He will face many hurdles en route - for example, a possible General Election in face of a vote of no confidence in Parliament.

Gove (and this pains me to say it) is a consummate Parliamentarian who might be able to persuade some, just enough of his colleagues to vote with the government in a No confidence vote. Thus I consider Johnson would be advised to bring Gove into the cabinet in a senior ministerial post.

The current hard right contenders to the leadership seem to consider that the PM has ultimate say - thus the bravado about just sitting it out and going No Deal. But our system is built around collegiate government by Cabinet with the PM first among equals, and Subordinate Parliament with a Governing party with a majority who support their Prime Minister. But as we are witnessing, with much interest, the system does allow for a dominant PM to be challenged and overturned. To those of us interested by constitutional shenagins this is going to be a fun few months to observe.

Hey ho.

Keep your enemies closer than your friends.

One trick in a committee meeting is to sit right next to your main opponent.

Martin Holden · Jun 8, 2019

Well I still can’t see a decent leader amongst any of them and likewise for the Labour Party.

Muck Spreader · Jun 8, 2019

Had to laugh at the historian and editor of the Telegraph (BoJo's boss) Max Hastings on any answers last night, who said "Boris sees himself as Winston Churchill but, he is in fact Steve Coogan".

Qman · Jun 8, 2019

Muck Spreader said:
Had to laugh at the historian and editor of the Telegraph (BoJo's boss) Max Hastings on any answers last night, who said "Boris sees himself as Winston Churchill but, he is in fact Steve Coogan".

Max Hastings hasn't been the editor of the DT for about 20 years. Do keep up old boy.

Max's nickname when he was editor of the DT was "Hitler" I wonder why?

Qman · Jun 8, 2019

Yacker said:
Depends what your definition of a good economy is i suppose?

Low productivity
Stagnant wage growth (over a long period)
Shocking child poverty
Food banks
High rent costs
Under supply of affordable housing
Social services on a decline
Shortage of GPs Nurses Consultants
Vanity projects like HS2 sucking money from real problems
London centric economy
Real deprivation and lack of opportunity in the rest of the UK
Social mobility no longer exists

Ok i have picked the sh!t stuff so you can pick the good stuff.

I agree with the HS2 comment. But you haven't told us which countries are prospering with a Marxist government? Surely if it is so good many countries would be doing it!

Derrick Hughes · Jun 8, 2019

I still think Boris may put no deal to a public vote as his only option, he wont get anything out of the EU by October, he cant have an election , I cant see how he can get no deal through so he has no other option

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