Preparations for a Corbyn Government.

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Not sure it was the policies. More the personalities, or lack of them. Would have been good if they had put some actual humans in charge. Our PM has a slight look of exhumed corpse about her which is in no way her fault. But she could try to not act like one too.

Mrs May maybe doesn't come across that well, but I'd rather a studious thoughtful woman than a master of spin with no substance.

Sadly we have become a society that judges on appearances rather than substance.

Often there are no easy quick or painless solutions. Often it's a case of hard work, graft and certain amount of scrimping and saving to solve problems. Nobody likes to hear that, but it's true.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I have to reply to this - a military coup! Get a grip. This is not Pakistan nor a Tom Clancy novel. The nuclear deterrent is an irrelevance. When is it ever going to get used? What are you going to do with it? Keeps BA Systems going in Workington and Barrow and our loose grip on the top table at the UN. JC is only saying what I and from conversation several folk I know think. Big white elephant. Next thing you will be saying is you are off to that Observer Corps bunker at Binbrook.

I was ROC, before it was disbanded. Spent many an evening and weekend down a bunker. Part of the reason for disbanding was health and safety. Made me laugh that the ladder was considered a safety risk......in the midst of a nuclear attack! :scratchhead:
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
How much was the abolition of university tuition fees going to cost ?
It would depend on how many people we had to send through the system. I personally think that we should not be sending people out into the world burdened with a huge debt, regardless of it's terms, it's effect on their credit file etc. etc. etc. It's still a debt and it still weighs on your mind. I can see the opposite argument but on balance, I would get rid of fees. I would also make it bloody hard to get into uni like it used to be and would offer businesses tax breaks and incentives to run apprentice schemes etc. on a much larger scale. Get people working and productive while they learn.

We should see further education as an investment in UK PLC but it must be a good investment. Not just letting people doss for 4 years on a theatre studies degree while they decide what to do with their life. Those days are gone.

Perhaps fees could be tiered based on the 'usefulness' of the degree? So a teaching, nursing, engineering etc. degree would be free, a yoghurt knitting degree would cost £100k a year.
 

linga

Member
Location
Ceredigion
It would depend on how many people we had to send through the system. I personally think that we should not be sending people out into the world burdened with a huge debt, regardless of it's terms, it's effect on their credit file etc. etc. etc. It's still a debt and it still weighs on your mind. I can see the opposite argument but on balance, I would get rid of fees. I would also make it bloody hard to get into uni like it used to be and would offer businesses tax breaks and incentives to run apprentice schemes etc. on a much larger scale. Get people working and productive while they learn.

We should see further education as an investment in UK PLC but it must be a good investment. Not just letting people doss for 4 years on a theatre studies degree while they decide what to do with their life. Those days are gone.

Perhaps fees could be tiered based on the 'usefulness' of the degree? So a teaching, nursing, engineering etc. degree would be free, a yoghurt knitting degree would cost £100k a year.

Someone has to pay for it though. So its not fair to burden those that will benefit from their University education but ok to burden every other taxpayer ?

I do see the investment argument though

However I agree with your other thoughts. University should not be easy to get into , apprenticeships should be valued more highly and yoghurt knitting should attract a charge !
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
Someone has to pay for it though. So its not fair to burden those that will benefit from their University education but ok to burden every other taxpayer ?

I do see the investment argument though

However I agree with your other thoughts. University should not be easy to get into , apprenticeships should be valued more highly and yoghurt knitting should attract a charge !
The argument going that we all benefit from the brightest and best seeing through their potential. Most of us went to school and many of our kids will. Most of us will need a doctor at some point and so on. So society gets the payback from educating the best into those jobs. I do understand the opposite argument. I just feel that we are creating a country where everyone is in debt and more and more people are reliant of tax credits etc. just to lead a normal life. We should be going in the opposite direction.
 

linga

Member
Location
Ceredigion
The argument going that we all benefit from the brightest and best seeing through their potential. Most of us went to school and many of our kids will. Most of us will need a doctor at some point and so on. So society gets the payback from educating the best into those jobs. I do understand the opposite argument. I just feel that we are creating a country where everyone is in debt and more and more people are reliant of tax credits etc. just to lead a normal life. We should be going in the opposite direction.

Might the idea of educating the best into these jobs be considered elitist..?

Another argument goes that if the current workforce pays for university education then when the current students start work they will pay for the those workers pensions.
The only trouble with that is that the current workforce has to pay for both whilst trying to buy a house etc.
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
Might the idea of educating the best into these jobs be considered elitist..?

Another argument goes that if the current workforce pays for university education then when the current students start work they will pay for the those workers pensions.
The only trouble with that is that the current workforce has to pay for both whilst trying to buy a house etc.
Depends if everyone gets the same opportunity I guess.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
It would depend on how many people we had to send through the system. I personally think that we should not be sending people out into the world burdened with a huge debt, regardless of it's terms, it's effect on their credit file etc. etc. etc. It's still a debt and it still weighs on your mind. I can see the opposite argument but on balance, I would get rid of fees. I would also make it bloody hard to get into uni like it used to be and would offer businesses tax breaks and incentives to run apprentice schemes etc. on a much larger scale. Get people working and productive while they learn.

We should see further education as an investment in UK PLC but it must be a good investment. Not just letting people doss for 4 years on a theatre studies degree while they decide what to do with their life. Those days are gone.

Perhaps fees could be tiered based on the 'usefulness' of the degree? So a teaching, nursing, engineering etc. degree would be free, a yoghurt knitting degree would cost £100k a year.


Interesting and common approach that has been mentioned before on TFF the 'useful' degrees are free. But would you then say the recipient has to stay in UK for a period of time and not for example go to be a doctor or engineer abroad - say in Australia - or have to pay back?
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
Interesting and common approach that has been mentioned before on TFF the 'useful' degrees are free. But would you then say the recipient has to stay in UK for a period of time and not for example go to be a doctor or engineer abroad - say in Australia - or have to pay back?

I think you also have to question the Universities influence in this. They have been turned into money making corporations by successive governments and supplying attractive but worthless degrees to naive youngsters has become a key part of their income stream along with eye watering fees for overseas students.
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
Interesting and common approach that has been mentioned before on TFF the 'useful' degrees are free. But would you then say the recipient has to stay in UK for a period of time and not for example go to be a doctor or engineer abroad - say in Australia - or have to pay back?
I would think you would just have to go with that. What percentage of your investment would actually be lost? Also you could argue that we could work to attract similar graduates who have been educated at the cost of other countries. So I think that may be a zero sum in the end. At the end of the day, people come and go and even those who take opportunities overseas will often return some day, even more skilled and perhaps bring their wealth gained elsewhere back to the UK.....IF.....our taxation system encourages such moves. That is probably the key.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
It would depend on how many people we had to send through the system. I personally think that we should not be sending people out into the world burdened with a huge debt, regardless of it's terms, it's effect on their credit file etc. etc. etc. It's still a debt and it still weighs on your mind. I can see the opposite argument but on balance, I would get rid of fees. I would also make it bloody hard to get into uni like it used to be and would offer businesses tax breaks and incentives to run apprentice schemes etc. on a much larger scale. Get people working and productive while they learn.

We should see further education as an investment in UK PLC but it must be a good investment. Not just letting people doss for 4 years on a theatre studies degree while they decide what to do with their life. Those days are gone.

Perhaps fees could be tiered based on the 'usefulness' of the degree? So a teaching, nursing, engineering etc. degree would be free, a yoghurt knitting degree would cost £100k a year.



I am intrigued to know which degrees folk consider might be taxpayer funded - presumably because they are considered worthy.. Looks as though teaching, nursing (anything medical) engineering get a positive vote while yoghurt knitting for which I presume is shorthand for 'media studies' is not - maybe any degree leading to a BA rather than BSc. So I was thinking about this and wondering would agriculture degrees get free funding. And who would decide?
 
I am intrigued to know which degrees folk consider might be taxpayer funded - presumably because they are considered worthy.. Looks as though teaching, nursing (anything medical) engineering get a positive vote while yoghurt knitting for which I presume is shorthand for 'media studies' is not - maybe any degree leading to a BA rather than BSc. So I was thinking about this and wondering would agriculture degrees get free funding. And who would decide?
If labour lose a 4th election I think it will break the party
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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