Debt

farmerm · Jun 24, 2019

lloyd said:
Well was farmland such an attractive investment for business people
before share farming arrangements were an opton?
When they had to farm the land themselves they quite often lost money.

I am not disagreeing with you, I am just not sure how the decision as to who is a genuine farmer would be made... There are famers at one end and land owners at the other, but there is a middle ground where definitions become blurred.. Owners can still loose money in share farming arrangements. If a farmer is not a business person what makes him/her entitled to be running a business?

lloyd · Jun 24, 2019

farmerm said:
I am not disagreeing with you, I am just not sure how the decision as to who is a genuine farmer would be made... There are famers at one end and land owners at the other, but there is a middle ground where definitions become blurred.. Owners can still loose money in share farming arrangements. If a farmer is not a business person what makes him/her entitled to be running a business?

You would probably have to look at percentage of income
made up from farming.
Ie if your making more than 50 per cent from non farming
Is your time really spent worrying about grain and livestock prices.
And before someone brands me Jealous we have non farming
Income that will increase substantially in the next couple of years.

lloyd · Jun 24, 2019

Farmerm
How would you differentiate between someone who
buys land because they love to farm or someone who
just buys it for tax relief?

hendrebc · Jun 24, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
"The System" was designed when labour was cheap

The labour left, so now the farmer is the cheap labour. So either it gets accepted, or the system has to adapt

And inputs have risen too. I've probably told you this before but I remember in the 90s when lambs were about £40-45 £1/kilo liveweight you could get a tonne of cake roughly for the price of 2 lambs. Fertilizer was similar. Now you need 3 lambs (£70 X 3 = £210 very rough sums) to pay for the same inputs.
But yes labour is a killer. Gone are the days you could get someone you knew from the pub to give you a hand on a Saturday or Sunday for £20 for a short day, an evening after work for £10. There was no shortage of takers either it was easy to find someone. Now even if I wanted someone to give me a hand on a weekend I doubt I could find anyone and they would want £10 an hour at least. That would easy add up to a lamb a day when it used to be half a lamb. I
find thinking of things in lambs/fat cattle it takes to pay for things soon puts into perspective and makes you think what you could do differently to not need to give away so many of those lambs.

farmerm · Jun 24, 2019

lloyd said:
You would probably have to look at percentage of income
made up from farming.
Ie if your making more than 50 per cent from non farming
Is your time really spent worrying about grain and livestock prices.
And before someone brands me Jealous we have non farming
Income that will increase substantially in the next couple of years.

So diversified farmers would have to step back from none farming operations and spend more time worrying about grain and livestock prices? I know several farmers who have a rental property or maybe 2. These generate more income that there farming operations would without BPS.

Still Farming · Jun 24, 2019

As stated from the start ,so many variables and situations.
Maybe some big farmers putting all their subsidy on stocks and shares ,selling for developement , diversifications etc.etc and farms ,propped up ,or making losses and huge debts to offset other items etc.etc.
Nothing straight forward in this world?

farmerm · Jun 24, 2019

lloyd said:
Farmerm
How would you differentiate between someone who
buys land because they love to farm or someone who
just buys it for tax relief?

Should you?

lloyd · Jun 24, 2019

farmerm said:
So diversified farmers would have to step back from none farming operations and spend more time worrying about grain and livestock prices? I know several farmers who have a rental property or maybe 2. These generate more income that there farming operations would without BPS.

No that's not what I was advocating but there has to be a difference
between time spent farming and alternative lifestyle incomes or otherwise
you may aswell be a business person who owns land.

Perhaps income should have been turnover .

Derrick Hughes · Jun 24, 2019

Ford 5000

livestock 1 · Jun 24, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
That's in the bottom of the valley. The road between the yard and there had 8ft drifts, which the load all couldn't navigate. It didn't take long to dig a small 4ft path the quad could drive through.

Obviously it's not a patch on the "real" weather you experience, where ever you are. But there are other ways of doing things, that's the point I'm trying to make.

I always wondered why people move here then we see the removal vans appear two years later.
What you’ve written explains some of that

livestock 1 · Jun 24, 2019

Forage Trader said:
Ford 5000

Four wheel drive???

Hens teeth?

Still Farming · Jun 24, 2019

livestock 1 said:
Four wheel drive???

Hens teeth?

You would be in debt if bought that??

lloyd · Jun 24, 2019

farmerm said:
Should you?

Well if the countryside is only going to be full
Of asset wealth creators who have little interest
In food production and rural communities then
Jeremy Corbyns new taxes he creates will be indefensible.

farmerm · Jun 24, 2019

lloyd said:
Well if the countryside is only going to be full
Of asset wealth creators who have little interest
In food production and rural communities then
Jeremy Corbyns new taxes he creates will be indefensible.

Some of the big investors have a serious interest in food production.. yes there are tax reasons behind the land purchases but they have no intention of loosing money to avoid paying tax. They are only interested in purchasing the best land.

lloyd · Jun 24, 2019

farmerm said:
Some of the big investors have a serious interest in food production.. yes there are tax reasons behind the land purchases but they have no intention of loosing money to avoid paying tax. They are only interested in purchasing the best land.

Yes I agree that some of the big investors have a serious interest
and make vast improvements to the land ,buildings ,infrastructure etc but others
have no interest ,make no return investment and use it for tax relief.
Differentiating the two would be needed.
Food security should be higher on the agenda as one day it might
be important.

Derrick Hughes · Jun 24, 2019

livestock 1 said:
Four wheel drive???

Hens teeth?

What you need 4 x4 for .dad farmerd a big place for 30 years with a Fordson Dexta .put spadlugs on it if you needing grip

livestock 1 · Jun 24, 2019

Forage Trader said:
What you need 4 x4 for .dad farmerd a big place for 30 years with a Fordson Dexta .put spadlugs on it if you needing grip

It’s steep. Not worth someone’s life when there’s gear available to do the job.

muleman · Jun 24, 2019

Its 2019 and people are suggesting we virtually move back to working with horses because we cant afford a decent tractor......in the days of horses there were probably 5,10 or 15 men per farm....now its one or 2 men and they have to get through a lot of work.....what a state the industry is in!

JP1 · Jun 24, 2019

livestock 1 said:
I could farm at Bedford you couldn’t farm here sorry to say it but that’s the truth

How do you know? Do you know @SJH 's set up?

JP1 · Jun 24, 2019

S J H said:
I reckon you'd struggle, spending your time driving about is a task in itself. A ring fenced farm would save me a fortune over my lifetime, and I doubt you expect to feed in July.

I think there's a difference between a hill farm and one up north.

You got there and I just commented on your behalf. I remember meeting you and I got the inference in your opening post about the ring fence. Also farming on the urban fringe isn't all it's cracked up to be

Debt

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page