How hard to find a investor to expand the flock?

Wink · Oct 10, 2019

Dry Rot said:
Well, I think you are all being a bit unfair. Maybe the OP had a plan to import some foreign breed of sheep with endearing characteristics, has a scheme to popularise them, then aims to sell breeding stock. Now that could work. Provided he gets out before the inevitable collapse.

Absolutely and perhaps a bit off topic but I have been thinking recently, it would be exciting breeding for sheep meat quality to breed, very high intramuscular fat - wagyu style sheep. A week or so later I found a breeder about to import embryos of the "Australian White" sheep to try and obtain these characteristics. Very interesting and exciting I think, incase anyone wants a read..

Anyway, good luck @Massey675

unlacedgecko · Oct 10, 2019

Wink said:
Absolutely and perhaps a bit off topic but I have been thinking recently, it would be exciting breeding for sheep meat quality to breed, very high intramuscular fat - wagyu style sheep. A week or so later I found a breeder about to import embryos of the "Australian White" sheep to try and obtain these characteristics. Very interesting and exciting I think, incase anyone wants a read..

Anyway, good luck @Massey675

Pm me a link please.

bitwrx · Oct 10, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
The country is full of people who have had sheep from a young age. Not many of them are making any profit though!

Why are you any different? What's your unique selling point? Why should someone invest their hard earned in you?

Find a copy of David Sullivan's Nuffield report and read it. Then read it again, along with plenty of other relevant Nuffield reports.

Perfect a system which is low labour, low input and high profit. Then you might find an investor who's interested.

If you have a copy of the report, or know where on the internet I can find it, could you post it up? Can't find it on the Nuffield sites, or anywhere else...

unlacedgecko · Oct 10, 2019

bitwrx said:
If you have a copy of the report, or know where on the internet I can find it, could you post it up? Can't find it on the Nuffield sites, or anywhere else...

I've got a hard copy somewhere. I'll dig it out and email you a pdf.

gone up the hill · Oct 10, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
It doesn't need to be a single ring fended block of land. Nor does it need to belong to 1 landowner.

@TimW runs a successful business with multiple land parcels.

@Cows 'n grass runs a dairy business across multiple land owners.

Reading between the lines, both businesses are extremely profitable.

The biggest barriers to new entrant sheep farmers are access to land and access to capital. Both can be overcome with a little flexible thought.

Tim W said in another thread his sheep lost money last year due to buying in forage/ feed due to the drought so profit margins must be very tight in the first place per ewe for that to happen.

I suspect the situation wont be any better this year if he sells fat lambs as they are down £6/8+ a lamb on 12 months ago.

This astra van of yours @unlacedgecko , How much weight can you legally haul behind it?

Tim W · Oct 10, 2019

Wink said:
Absolutely and perhaps a bit off topic but I have been thinking recently, it would be exciting breeding for sheep meat quality to breed, very high intramuscular fat - wagyu style sheep. A week or so later I found a breeder about to import embryos of the "Australian White" sheep to try and obtain these characteristics. Very interesting and exciting I think, incase anyone wants a read..

Anyway, good luck @Massey675

He must have a deep bank balance

Tim W · Oct 10, 2019

gone up the hill said:
Tim W said in another thread his sheep lost money last year due to buying in forage/ feed due to the drought so profit margins must be very tight in the first place per ewe for that to happen.

I suspect the situation wont be any better this year if he sells fat lambs as they are down £6/8+ a lamb on 12 months ago.

This astra van of yours @unlacedgecko , How much weight can you legally haul behind it?

I can cope with £8 down if they are grass finished
Dry food is the killer

gone up the hill · Oct 10, 2019

Tim W said:
I can cope with £8 down if they are grass finished
Dry food is the killer

Doesn't take long for a lamb to eat £8/10 worth of cake/ grain that is for sure!

Only future I can see for the sheep industry is home grown forage and in particular finishing lambs on reseeds, especially red clover after a couple of cuts of silage have been taken off it.

Bury the Trash · Oct 10, 2019

gone up the hill said:
Doesn't take long for a lamb to eat £8/10 worth of cake/ grain that is for sure!

Only future I can see for the sheep industry is home grown forage and in particular finishing lambs on reseeds, especially red clover after a couple of cuts of silage have been taken off it.

the red clover is full of water now, a bale of last years hay and whole barley is finishing them though.
Home and dry treated home grown whole barley that is.

gone up the hill · Oct 10, 2019

Bury the Trash said:
the red clover is full of water now, a bale of last years hay and whole barley is finishing them though.
Home and dry treated home grown whole barley that is.

How much £ head of barley will they eat before they are gone?

Everything is full of water now

You wouldn't consider feeding whole oats?

Wink · Oct 10, 2019

Tim W said:
He must have a deep bank balance

I don't know a huge amount about this other than the meat quality aspects. Could you explain a bit more please @Tim W ? Is this the cost of embryos and shipping, time to see results, cost of measuring results, feet issues for UK as believe Dorper is part of the mix? Or likely a combination of all??? Cheers.

Bury the Trash · Oct 10, 2019

gone up the hill said:
How much £ head of barley will they eat before they are gone?

Everything is full of water now

You wouldn't consider feeding whole oats?

No i dont use oats for finishing, not enough energy density.
Ir approx £2 's worth will get them gone ( they are on good grass as well) they are certainly pulling the weights.
Very well finished rather than murdered like some have selling them.
Besides I need the money now to pay bills.

gone up the hill · Oct 10, 2019

Bury the Trash said:
No i dont use oats for finishing, not enough energy density.
Ir approx £2 's worth will get them gone ( they are on good grass as well) they are certainly pulling the weights.
Very well finished rather than murdered like some have selling them.
Besides I need the money now to pay bills.

A lot of people say oats are very good for finishing lambs so was just wondering if you would use them or not.

£2 head in barley is nothing in real terms and will easily return double that in extra cover on the lambs for sure.

bitwrx · Oct 10, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
I've got a hard copy somewhere. I'll dig it out and email you a pdf.

That's really kind. But if you let me know the title and year, I can save you a job and get a copy from Nuffield myself.

Blue. · Oct 10, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
It doesn't need to be a single ring fended block of land. Nor does it need to belong to 1 landowner.

@TimW runs a successful business with multiple land parcels.

@Cows 'n grass runs a dairy business across multiple land owners.

Reading between the lines, both businesses are extremely profitable.

The biggest barriers to new entrant sheep farmers are access to land and access to capital. Both can be overcome with a little flexible thought.

Extremely profitable for who? The land owner?

beltextexel · Oct 10, 2019

Here’s an idea I’ve been toying with. Who do think will do best out of the following situation?....(sheep owner or contract shepherd)

Say I need 400 gimmer lambs per year for flock replacements. Most years we would tup them, this year we’ve sent them away on keep until April/May been run dry. We are paying the man the usual way - p/per head/per week.
If I turned round to the contract shepherd (or anyone else for that matter) and said, here’s 400 gimmer lambs for you to keep from September, I’m not going to pay you anything but you can tup them and keep all the lambs off them for yourself, then I want 390 shearlings(give or take obviously) back in September the following year. Repeat the process each year.
Who would the winner be? Advantages and disadvantages to both parties as far as I can see.

unlacedgecko · Oct 10, 2019

beltextexel said:
Here’s an idea I’ve been toying with. Who do think will do best out of the following situation?....(sheep owner or contract shepherd)

Say I need 400 gimmer lambs per year for flock replacements. Most years we would tup them, this year we’ve sent them away on keep until April/May been run dry. We are paying the man the usual way - p/per head/per week.
If I turned round to the contract shepherd (or anyone else for that matter) and said, here’s 400 gimmer lambs for you to keep from September, I’m not going to pay you anything but you can tup them and keep all the lambs off them for yourself, then I want 390 shearlings(give or take obviously) back in September the following year. Repeat the process each year.
Who would the winner be? Advantages and disadvantages to both parties as far as I can see.

I’ve run the numbers for such a scenario (as I was offered something identical).

It’s a good cheap way of starting/expanding a flock with quality genetics, but as a means of fat lamb production, the gimmers won’t produce enough lambs to be profitable.

unlacedgecko · Oct 10, 2019

gone up the hill said:
Tim W said in another thread his sheep lost money last year due to buying in forage/ feed due to the drought so profit margins must be very tight in the first place per ewe for that to happen.

I suspect the situation wont be any better this year if he sells fat lambs as they are down £6/8+ a lamb on 12 months ago.

This astra van of yours @unlacedgecko , How much weight can you legally haul behind it?

1300kg. Given that any trailer over 750kg must be braked, most mobile yards will be below this weight.

If more towing capacity is required, a larger van (transit etc) can give 3500kg, as well as increased payload internally. Obviously it will be heavier on diesel.

gone up the hill · Oct 10, 2019

unlacedgecko said:
1300kg. Given that any trailer over 750kg must be braked, most mobile yards will be below this weight.

So you cant use it really to tow stock in any big numbers to market/ between grazing blocks etc so not really viable for what your suggesting!

unlacedgecko · Oct 10, 2019

gone up the hill said:
So you cant use it really to tow stock in any big numbers to market/ between grazing blocks etc so not really viable for what your suggesting!

Towing stock behind any kind of B licence vehicle in any number is not viable. Having grazed large numbers on dispersed holdings for several winters, if the sheep can’t walk it then a haulier is booked. Anything else is a waste of time.

The Astra Van will easily move 4-5 sheep in the back (casualty animals etc) so is more than adequate.

It’s also cheap to buy, cheap to run and cheap to maintain, which is key for a new business with long returns on investment.

How hard to find a investor to expand the flock?

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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