Millions of trees to be planted,

kiwi pom · Nov 30, 2019

What's the problem with planting trees, especially if they come up with a way in which land owners can make money out of it?
They're just a crop that takes longer to grow.

DRC · Nov 30, 2019

kiwi pom said:
What's the problem with planting trees, especially if they come up with a way in which land owners can make money out of it?
They're just a crop that takes longer to grow.

Cash flow

DRC · Nov 30, 2019

No ones mentioned all the trees cut down at this time of year, just to wither and die in someone’s house for a few weeks

kiwi pom · Nov 30, 2019

silverfox said:
Cash flow

Must be a way though, isn't it just commercial forestry or will these trees just be left to grow?

DRC · Nov 30, 2019

kiwi pom said:
Must be a way though, isn't it just commercial forestry or will these trees just be left to grow?

As a mainly tenant farmer, I don’t think it’d be an option for me, and who would want to devalue good arable land anyway.

Y Fan Wen · Nov 30, 2019

pgk said:
Planted 30 white hornbeam 6 years ago, advised best suited to our soils, for numerous reasons now down to 12 doing well, if that is repeated across the board suggest need to plant 2.5 trees to get 1, anyone know if that is a realistic figure?

2.5 to 1 is doing well in commercial hardwood forestry standards.

spin cycle · Nov 30, 2019

kiwi pom said:
What's the problem with planting trees, especially if they come up with a way in which land owners can make money out of it?
They're just a crop that takes longer to grow.

in a word 'TRUST'.....one govt can promise/pay one thing....but next might 'change the goalposts'......that's my experience on conservation via stewardship anyway

thing is with stewardship you're out in a few years and can farm how you like...with odd exception.....but with trees they're there for decades.....i wouldn't trust govt to say 'we're not paying anymore but you can't rip them up'

Goweresque · Nov 30, 2019

spin cycle said:
in a word 'TRUST'.....one govt can promise/pay one thing....but next might 'change the goalposts'......that's my experience on conservation via stewardship anyway

thing is with stewardship you're out in a few years and can farm how you like...with odd exception.....but with trees they're there for decades.....i wouldn't trust govt to say 'we're not paying anymore but you can't rip them up'

I'm pretty sure that the law already is 'Once a wood always a wood'. You can't clear fell trees without a Felling Licence, and you won't get a FL unless you have a replanting plan in place. Only willow biomass can be removed if its no longer needed. If you plant a traditional woodland, whether deciduous or coniferous, thats it, its a woodland forever.

Bury the Trash · Nov 30, 2019

pgk said:
Planted 30 white hornbeam 6 years ago, advised best suited to our soils, for numerous reasons now down to 12 doing well, if that is repeated across the board suggest need to plant 2.5 trees to get 1, anyone know if that is a realistic figure?

Yes it could be , and it could be worse than that figure.
I try plant a few each year, use some of the bps for it. lost about half of what was planted 2 yrs ago and last winters I lost nearer 3/4's that's on about 100 or so.
Mainly because of the drier conditions at certain times in those 2 years but also sheep damage , not quick enough with the protection fence which was a management fault. It's not really viable to do much watering tho unless theres cheap water and time to do it.

Lack of appreciable rain from March to July is not good for newly planted stuff.

Planted hornbeam in the past and not lost but 1by rabbit damage in some of those wet years like around 2012 or so.
Mind HB Sticks a fair bit of dry I find , just not when it goes on dry for mon ths like recently..

O'Reilly · Nov 30, 2019

I'm that fed up with being told that I'm abusing the animals that I farm (just the fact I'm keeping them makes me an abuser apparently), and that I am killing the planet with said animals, and that people don't need food now, that if I didn't have so much debt to service, I would plant the lot with trees, regardless of planning rules and say there you go, trees as you wanted. Then when, and eventually it will be when, there is a food shortage I will have huge pleasure in saying 'feck off and starve, you barstewards, you didn't want the food, you're not having any now, serve you right, tw@ts. Eat some bark if you're really hungry'. Sadly I do have debt that needs servicing, and I don't have a better idea to service it than milking cows.

Case290 · Nov 30, 2019

What are our top government party’s playing at. What value do the government think trees are ?? other countries think they are fairy valueless and are ripping them out as fast as they can. To sell us beef maybe if they didn’t import the beef of foreign food the trees wouldn’t be getting destroyed and we’d still have a beef Industry and they’d still have trees.

kiwi pom · Dec 1, 2019

Case290 said:
What are our top government party’s playing at. What value do the government think trees are ?? other countries think they are fairy valueless and are ripping them out as fast as they can. To sell us beef maybe if they didn’t import the beef of foreign food the trees wouldn’t be getting destroyed and we’d still have a beef Industry and they’d still have trees.

One way of looking at it might be, poorer countries are ripping trees out to turn into farmland because they and their country are poor and they're just trying to scrape together a very basic living.
Richer countries buy their produce, which helps them and has enough money to pay its own landowners to plant trees to even things up.

In time if the poorer countries can lift themselves out of poverty they might start caring more for the environment too.

Not saying its right but its one way of thinking.

PuG · Dec 1, 2019

All the woodland here is coppiced every 60 to 90 years for fire wood and theirs not shortage. Prominently oak. Helps the farmers considerably with extra income, rapid re-growth from the root ball and supplies all the locals with heating. Nothing needs planting.

Grandad Pig · Dec 1, 2019

Cowgirl said:
I was under the impression that grass was as good at carbon sequestration as trees? And surely trees are slow growing and use less carbon dioxide when fully grown? Am I wrong?

I think so

Gong Farmer · Dec 1, 2019

Trees, like all plants, spend half their time respiring and putting out CO2. Didn't I see a link, on here possibly, to research showing trees are major producers of nitrous oxide?

egbert · Dec 1, 2019

Whatever party comes to the top, expect 'encouragement to plant trees'.

It is the mantra from urban society, who don't want to grasp the enormity of the carbon they're (we all are) releasing by burning fossil fuels.

Yes Cowgirl trees grab carbon as they grow. (they are made of it)
But no, just like grassland, they don't go on grabbing it exponentially.
Once, to take oak for example, your trees have reached mature size ..maybe 120-140 years, if you can afford not to harvest them, they'll be rotting in the middle, and shedding as many limbs as they grow. There is not much more carbon build up.

The test is to ask 'where is this carbon?', because with a small list of exceptions, the soil under undisturbed woodland or pasture evidently doesn't keep growing ad infinitum.

Planting trees is as big a myth as 'cows and methane', as far as greenhouse gases go.
In 100-150 years, these woodlands won't have achieved anything meaningful....and we will have released a whole lot more fossil carbon meanwhile.

It's a shame...we should be growing timber as a crop, same as anything else.
(oh, it is possible under AHA, with agreement from your landlord...I worked up just such an agreement half a lifetime ago)

Jackov Altraids · Dec 3, 2019

Everyone loves trees, they're meant to be good for the environment, so obviously planting lots seems a great idea.
I rather suspect that many will not be so keen on having them planted close to themselves.
Going for a walk in a wood can be wonderful and relaxing but living in house that is surrounded by trees can be dark, foreboding, insular and remove that expensive view.
Trees don't even need to be close to housing to have a significant impact on views and the whole 'climate' of an area.
Many of those voting for tree planting will be opposing planting in the same way our local council has thousands of wildflower seeds to plant on road side verges which everyone loves the idea of, except they don't want them on the neatly trimmed bit next to them.

cvx175 · Dec 3, 2019

Jackov Altraids said:
Everyone loves trees, they're meant to be good for the environment, so obviously planting lots seems a great idea.
I rather suspect that many will not be so keen on having them planted close to themselves.
Going for a walk in a wood can be wonderful and relaxing but living in house that is surrounded by trees can be dark, foreboding, insular and remove that expensive view.
Trees don't even need to be close to housing to have a significant impact on views and the whole 'climate' of an area.
Many of those voting for tree planting will be opposing planting in the same way our local council has thousands of wildflower seeds to plant on road side verges which everyone loves the idea of, except they don't want them on the neatly trimmed bit next to them.

So it's a good solution to all the posts on here about dealing with problem neighbours who's houses border fields, stick an acre or two of trees beside them

Ffermer Bach · Dec 5, 2019

cvx175 said:
So it's a good solution to all the posts on here about dealing with problem neighbours who's houses border fields, stick an acre or two of trees beside them

preferably sitka spruce

farmerm · Dec 5, 2019

kiwi pom said:
One way of looking at it might be, poorer countries are ripping trees out to turn into farmland because they and their country are poor and they're just trying to scrape together a very basic living.
Richer countries buy their produce, which helps them and has enough money to pay its own landowners to plant trees to even things up.

In time if the poorer countries can lift themselves out of poverty they might start caring more for the environment too.

Not saying its right but its one way of thinking.

As poorer countries start to lift themselves out of poverty, consumption of meat and other resources increases and the rate of environmental degradation accelerates.

Millions of trees to be planted,

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Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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