When’s a deal done?

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
As for paying a 10% deposit:

A cheque would take a week to clear and isn't any guarantee of full payment.

Dealer knows where you live, it's not like you'll do a runner.

In a Dealer/farmer transaction the dealer is the bigger risk. More dealers than farmers suddenly "cease trading" shafting people in their debt.

cheque’s ? :ROFLMAO:

generally a bank transfer or EFT

money’s not paid until it lands in the account, regardless of how long it takes for a cheque ( :ROFLMAO: ) to clear
 

Grassman

Member
Location
Derbyshire
It's a difficult one really. Who is the one to take the risk of non payment?
Farmers seem to consider themselves on a higher moral platform than the rest of the world. Especially over those pesky machinery dealers ripping them off!
But we all know there's good and bad on both sides. I have a good trusting relationship with my regular suppliers and they don't ask for deposits but if I'm dealing with someone I don't regularly deal with I expect to pay a deposit or the whole invoice up front.
I recently purchased £5k of fencing and paid the whole invoice up front. Next time they may be happy for me to pay afterwards.
 
Location
southwest
well, in our case, most large tractors & machines have to be ordered 6 months or so in advance, so they can be booked into the factory & delivered

any new ( large ) tractor I’ve ever bought has had to come from the US first . . .

no one keeps large stocks just sitting in yards waiting to be sold . . .

I may be naive, but paying a deposit on something that isn't even made yet is just downright stupid. Seen threads on here of people buying a trailer and it's not the right spec when delivered, let alone a tractor!
 

Tractorstant

Member
Location
Monaco.
No Cash no Splash here.

Antiquated practices of "Handshakes" are completely out-dated. This whole, "when my father bought a machine......" Kit now is so so specialist, anything that carries a risk of being in stock needs to be deposited, can really mess cashflow up. Confirming in writing is all well and good, but means nothing in court as you have to prove loss.

I feel sorry for the rep, we've all been there, but even cloud and all that. I had a painful experience with a client I invested a hell of a lot of time into, only for him to walk. However 6 months later I sold another client the same "thing" and he went on to buy a further 3. Tell him to keep his head up, the industry needs young blood.
 
As for paying a 10% deposit:

A cheque would take a week to clear and isn't any guarantee of full payment.

Dealer knows where you live, it's not like you'll do a runner.

In a Dealer/farmer transaction the dealer is the bigger risk. More dealers than farmers suddenly "cease trading" shafting people in their debt.
aye works both ways. once nearly lost a £15k deposit when a company went bust. wanting a large deposit upfront gets alarm bells ringing for me. it means they're desperately trying to claw money in to keep afloat. rightly, or wrongly, i avoid.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
aye works both ways. once nearly lost a £15k deposit when a company went bust. wanting a large deposit upfront gets alarm bells ringing for me. it means they're desperately trying to claw money in to keep afloat. rightly, or wrongly, i avoid.

I've dealt with many car dealers over the years, most of which, believe it or not have gone bust. Only one asked for a deposit, but it was for a factory order not a vehicle they had in stock.
However, as some will know, I have long put down a £500 refundable deposit on a LR Defender. They have asked for another £1500 deposit if I were to order one. It is yet another reason for not buying it as far as I'm concerned, because these flash garages are all 'here-today-gone-tomorrow' whereas they all know where I am rooted.

I'm actually going to tell them early in the New Year that I'm not going to order one, at least not in the short term. Hate disappointing people but I'm disappointed myself that it just doesn't get me excited.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
It is an actual price rise, of 3.8% meaning £2,000 increase, we just buy it and sell it, all the time as a dealer we have to handle more money to make a smaller margin, I’m not complaining, me work in a low margin industry dealing with people who make low margins. I’m a realist, I was just after people’s thoughts on the ethics as I will now have a tractor that I wouldn’t normally order for stock here that will need paying for in a few months time.....

It really does depend on how likely it is to be sold fairly easily. It could be looked at as a sales opportunity at the same time as being let down by the initial customer who ordered it. If it is something unusual which adds too much cost compared to the usual spec you sell, will the importer help by giving you demo terms on it, or other incentives to a prospective purchaser to sweeten the pill?
 

Drillman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Well although I’ve had bad experiences as I posted earlier I’ve also had excellent dealers and individuals. who I’ve done business with in recent times.

One was Farmstar who were spot on to deal with.

The other was @Dave W who again was very good to deal with.
 

Grassman

Member
Location
Derbyshire
I may be naive, but paying a deposit on something that isn't even made yet is just downright stupid. Seen threads on here of people buying a trailer and it's not the right spec when delivered, let alone a tractor!
So if you were the one making something for someone would you not want any deposit? Even if you have no prior knowledge about the customer?
 

ARW

Member
Location
Yorkshire
I find these days that there is always some bright bugger out there ready to pull another man's deal apart, I hate it when you think you have done alright then someone gets onto my brother and says so and so said this or that and then tells me I ought to not buy this we should buy the other [emoji35]
I have developed quite a thick skin over it!

This also annoys me, they are usually bollox.
You buy a machine and some doofus remarks “you should of bought this blah blah, much cheaper, and a better trade in deal, when I looked they offered me 3 million pounds for my old scraper tractor”
Being offered an amount and being paid an amount are not related!
 

Drillman

Member
Mixed Farmer
This also annoys me, they are usually bollox.
You buy a machine and some doofus remarks “you should of bought this blah blah, much cheaper, and a better trade in deal, when I looked they offered me 3 million pounds for my old scraper tractor”
Being offered an amount and being paid an amount are not related!
I’ve had a lad tell me it’s always cheaper to buy used grass kit out of Wales. That’s rubbish as well especially wen u take into account the cost to travel to view and haulage to get it delivered!
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
I’ve had a lad tell me it’s always cheaper to buy used grass kit out of Wales. That’s rubbish as well especially wen u take into account the cost to travel to view and haulage to get it delivered!

I have found the opposite, cheaper in general over the border.

Plus, imo i would say that kit generally has a harder time in Wales, especially on hill farms. Its not always the case of course, but as a rule wales has more hill farms / mountainous terrain as a % of overall land. The chance of hitting a stone with a mower is far grater in Snowdonia, than Shropshire.
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
I consider a deal done with a handshake or if done over the phone a verbal agreement and invoice issued.
I wouldn't dream of selling to someone else in the mean time and I'd expect a similar level of courtesy from the buyer.
sadly the number of timewasters is on the increase. Do a deal, send invoice, hear nothing. Chase up with messages and ignored phone calls. Still nothing.
I couldn't care less if they've changed their mind. Just have the decency to say so.
It's probably happened 20+ times this year. 3 of those were supposed reputable dealer who I'm very tempted to name and shame but I won't!
Oh , go on
 
So we sell machinery...but we’ve had more people back out on deals in the last few months than I’ve had in 15 years on sales...
So the latest one , a customer asks for quotes to swap a loader tractor, his used one a week down the line develops and issue , so we agree that we will fix it on the deal of the tractor at cost price, lend him a demo tractor over Christmas as long as we order the tractor before Christmas as the price from the manufacturer will be going up by a reasonable amount.
Customer told us to get one ordered, they also confirmed this the next day verbally.

We rang the customer today to say we could do with getting his in to do the repair, as we can’t have the demo out indefinitely...to be told that we are thousands out to another brand, when my rep asked if there was anything we could do with spec...was told that he does a deal he sticks to it...

Our normal procedure is to confirm the order in writing and get an order confirmation signed from the customer, because of the Christmas break this had not been completed.
The second one I’ve had in a few months, the previous had a written order from the cimustoner, a signed confirmation, finance signed..but two managers disagreed and changed there mind, leaving me with a special order tractor in stock...
I’m old and wise enough to know that it’s just one of those things...but am curious to people’s thoughts...
I,m disappointed with that story not my way of doing business quite shocking behaviour on the so called customers behalf. I personally have bought and sold many machines over the years with mostly easy transactions many machines arriving here without payment including a combines tractors etc being asked for a deposit would only happen if there was a cast iron reason imo. I would say the vast majority of customers are 100% genuine but can see that is changing a little bit and my reasoning on this behaviour is people tend to nowadays do business on a keyboard rather than face to face which was the old way along with a handshake, on the keyboard it is very easy to change your mind
 
I may be naive, but paying a deposit on something that isn't even made yet is just downright stupid. Seen threads on here of people buying a trailer and it's not the right spec when delivered, let alone a tractor!

Err, in the real world, why would a manufacturer build something for you, as you specified, and then wait for you to pay for it once it is delivered?

Have you ever tried buying a Porsche or something? Why would they bother to take up a slot on their production line for you if you aren't serious about buying it? Some companies are plenty busy enough fulfilling orders for customers and aren't waiting around for some oik in the UK who wants everything dropped for him.

For a machine sat in the yard or on the shop shelf already built it is a different matter but one built exactly to your spec? Be fair.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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