- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Must take action to prevent "Injurious weeds" from spreading
So set-stocking is illegal?
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
So set-stocking is illegal?
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
That's the biggest trick as I see it: forcing yourself to change habits.
It'll be interesting to see what the neighbours think "mad Pete" is up to this time when they see the diversity growing
- Location
- Derbyshire
Like the idea of adding to the grass by stitching in, but do worry about what's already there out competing what I put in.
Its a field that the landlord would be most upset if it was out of grass for any time.
Its a field that the landlord would be most upset if it was out of grass for any time.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
"Grass" or "forage"? ?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
We could probably keep refining what we do but in short - we can't really generate the large amounts of residue 'at the right time of year' with the old PP.That's the biggest trick as I see it: forcing yourself to change habits.
It'll be interesting to see what the neighbours think "mad Pete" is up to this time when they see the diversity growing
It's only really plentiful now, summer, which suits for moisture conservation but it's not really feeding the soil until late, due to the wiry nature of what grows.
The tail of the season (autumn) hasn't really wagged very hard these past couple of year either, going from dry to cold very rapidly and this hasn't really helped, nor has my management.
The big thing is, we really needed to make a start pulling down fences, and this area is all newer stuff so that'll be easier to reuse elsewhere, and the logical point to start installing the techno
- Location
- Derbyshire
It's right by his stables, and is the outward/inward gallop ??? which is why historically it's been thistlexed. ( Keeping the land tidy)
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
This is the part we're going to work on first, just a strip along the edge of the main creek, this gives an opportunity to Cc it twice in a row (if it works).
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
Change the period?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Few thistles in here, peoples
Taking a while to heal the soil after a foddbeet crop 5 years ago.
Got 3 wire fences up with no power on them, the top break is .33ha: 30 bulls and 595 hoggs for a few hours (rained hard overnight, they will need to suck back some grass to get a drink, will move them again after noon)
Is that a type of burdock? It looks like the only plant I’ve seen here that comes close to the one the Brits hate.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Scotch thistle looks a LOT like a burdock.
Same royal purple flower.
These are what kiwis call "californian" thistles, the spreading-on-a-rhizome ones.
Hopefully, if we keep on plastering down stemmy grass on the surface, they don't need to be here to provide that woody material required, to help bacterial soils become more fungally balanced.
This paddock was worked up 5-6 years ago for beet.
Tillage = bacterial
Fertiliser = bacterial
Too much soil N: soil C = bacterial
Same royal purple flower.
These are what kiwis call "californian" thistles, the spreading-on-a-rhizome ones.
Hopefully, if we keep on plastering down stemmy grass on the surface, they don't need to be here to provide that woody material required, to help bacterial soils become more fungally balanced.
This paddock was worked up 5-6 years ago for beet.
Tillage = bacterial
Fertiliser = bacterial
Too much soil N: soil C = bacterial
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
@JohnGalway sorry - ill rephrase. Change the time of the year that your hitting that spot. so my first year in i hit them april may time = bad - second times through ive hit more autumn times and even now im hitting an area where the stalks have fallen over. if you are moving into a thistle area but its not the best time for the animals to actually eat it - then you could skip it entirely.
@ShooTa I saw on here or maybe Instagram that you left a field to rest for almost a year. What was the idea behind that? I have heard of people doing it in really dry places where they would only get one or sometimes two grazings anyway so they are only really skipping one rotation but I didn't think a years rest would be necessary somewhere damp where we can cycle grasses much faster?
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
the idea was that it was always a poorly grazed filed in the past - its very long and thin but was never sub-divided - and often the rams (2 of them) would have been left in it all winter and then only one grazing a year anyway. So the idea behind the rest was two fold - give the grass planty of rest and see what also comes up (Huge volumes of birdsfoot trefoil) and then trample lost of that back in a big impact along with (if i can get them there) unrolling a few bales. second reason is that the hedge/fenceline is more porus and it was an arse to fence so i kinda wanted to avoid that for a while... i have no idea whether this will work but i hope it will.
Thanks. Makes sense when you explain it like that. Birdsfoot trefoil was a nice surprise
- Location
- Derbyshire UK
Don't try sweeds direct drilled into grass in May!
Germination was good but then....
Grass got the better of sweeds.
This end of field was ploughed and precision drilled, which made an average crop, even some fancy thistles KP would be proud of!
For stitching some diversity into existing sward, think I would try larger seeded aggressive plants i.e. vetch, fodder radish, mustard, chicory etc. Direct drill late summer/early autumn if there is some moisture about but when the grass is easing up and the soil has still got some warmth. I did read somewhere of a lad dusting a light dressing of ag. salt onto grass then grazing right down with sheep, then seeding into that.
Always going to be tricky in a non brittle environment, maybe that's why grass leys and the plough are not so bad after all!!!
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Think like nature to give the seed the edge over grass:
- Graze it hard twice about a week apart then sow
- Poach the surface in a wet spell then get the seed on quick
- a pass with a power harrow to rip the sward a bit then sow
Brings to mind a quote from my current reading matter which quotes the founder of IBM as having said "if you want to increase your successes then double your failures" ie: be more willing to fail.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
Outwintering Cattle With Stockpile and Bale Grazing
If you’re outwintering cattle, you have many options for providing the forage they need. In addition to grazing stockpiled pasture, I have tried bale grazing and unrolling hay. I have found all thr…
onpasture.com
“ If you live in a climate with wet, muddy, long winters, a summer-only grazing operation might be your easiest and most profitable option”.
It doesn’t mean you can’t try the other methods, it just means you’re not a failure if they don’t work out or suit your soil or climate.
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
I read this excellent article. Much of what it says we know already, but she talks about the differences in winter outdoor feeding in the two places she has farmed- NY state with heavy clay soils and wet and cold weather vs Oklahoma where the ground is hard and dry in the winter. I have read many articles about the benefits of stockpiling grass, bale grazing, unrolling hay and always felt there must be something wrong with my management because when I attempted these things I often made a mess. It is so encouraging to read:Outwintering Cattle With Stockpile and Bale Grazing
If you’re outwintering cattle, you have many options for providing the forage they need. In addition to grazing stockpiled pasture, I have tried bale grazing and unrolling hay. I have found all thr…
“ If you live in a climate with wet, muddy, long winters, a summer-only grazing operation might be your easiest and most profitable option”.
It doesn’t mean you can’t try the other methods, it just means you’re not a failure if they don’t work out or suit your soil or climate.
It's one of the reasons I'll plant so much willow on farm, we get a ton of rain and I've always had a voice in the back of mind urging caution re future bale success. So should I need to house, I'll be able to chip willow for bedding and keep costs down as I'd be buying the hay anyway.