A very dangerous man.

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Like I said, I can provide references for you, if you request it and promise to read/watch it. Otherwise I'm not wasting my time digging it up again. It all shows that the birth rate has stabilised on average worldwide to maintenance level [2.1 children per women or less] but that it is the people already born and grown up that will inevitably and unavoidably increase the total population through altering the shape of the population age pyramid. That's you and me, not children born today. It is obvious that you do not understand this.

I prefer to listen to the likes of Sir David Attenborough who you seem to think is a senile old fool who knows nothing so I don't think we will ever agree.

Both I and Sir David have lived a long time and I can be sure of one thing, life is uncertain and when you think you know how things are going to turn out, it will throw you a wobbly!
 
I believe the population of the second and third world will expand until the poorest economies are large enough to grow and offer the level of individual wealth that could be constituted as a baseline. I guess probably 10 billion or so total.

As others have stated the first world is slowing down dramatically, I forget the figures but I'm sure it was single figures % annual growth and it will slow up more yet.

Emerging killer plagues, viruses, war or famine- I don't believe these constitute a real threat to the human race. Yes it would be misery for a large proportion of the population in particular areas, but large areas would escape any significant effects.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I prefer to listen to the likes of Sir David Attenborough who you seem to think is a senile old fool who knows nothing so I don't think we will ever agree.

Both I and Sir David have lived a long time and I can be sure of one thing, life is uncertain and when you think you know how things are going to turn out, it will throw you a wobbly!
I can provide references from real scientists if you like, not television presenter who may not even disagree with population statistics that have proven remarkably accurate in their forecasts over half a century. You obviously haven’t bothered to look at the link provided by someone else a few posts ago, or you would know this. Either that or it is completely above your head. Which is it? Currently and on the evidence of the contents of your recent posts, I’d say both. You can’t be bothered to read the evidence because you don’t understand it. If so, I can provide a very graphic reference that makes it plain in relatively simple terms. Should you want to understand.Just ask and you will be enlightened by a most interesting chap and presentation. Sadly he is no longer with us, despite his hopes of a longer life as expressed in his presentation.
 
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Wellytrack

Member
It's easy to blame Religeon for people's failings, but people have to take responsibility for their own actions

But if things are as sustainable as many seem to suggest, then there's no problem with the increase in population.

Of course people should take responsibility for their actions but you cannot under estimate the power of guilt and fear.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I mentioned in previous posts that Africa would continue to grow, and the reasons for it. Poverty and a high child mortality rate mostly. As you see, Asia will grow for a few more years before the population declines significantly from 2050 on.
Total population is forecast to peak at around 11 billion. However that depends much on outdated projections for a linear increase in life expectancy [old people] which may well not turn out to be the case. So it is possible that the peak may well be lower, at nearer 10 billion with most of the growth from today’s numbers, as seen in the chart, being in Asia and Africa [even though Asia will peak and decline by the end of this century].
 

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
I prefer to listen to the likes of Sir David Attenborough who you seem to think is a senile old fool who knows nothing so I don't think we will ever agree.

Both I and Sir David have lived a long time and I can be sure of one thing, life is uncertain and when you think you know how things are going to turn out, it will throw you a wobbly!
Indeed. His words reverberate around my head. The felling of rain forests is a tragedy and unnecessary if the western worlds wasted production was consumed by the poorer countries where growing crops is more challenging. As I think he said, Africa could be self sufficient but the shear amount of water they would need to pump to grow food would be enormous. No doubt man is having an impact on the planet and we should set an example but unless and until countries like a China stop burning fossil fuels then we are only going to scratch the surface. My concern is that the Downing Street mob will regulate us to the limit but turn a blind eye to cheap imports whatever the product produced in a car less sustainable way. Packham was on the Beeb last night so more exposure to his personal views. As I’ve said before minorities have a bigger voice than the established practice, Therein lies the challenge. For sure we will have to change our behaviour but I am just not sure how this will actually play out in this modern consumer “I must everything today” world
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
I can provide references from real scientists if you like, not television presenter who may not even disagree with population statistics that have proven remarkably accurate in their forecasts over half a century. You obviously haven’t bothered to look at the link provided by someone else a few posts ago, or you would know this. Either that or it is completely above your head. Which is it? Currently and on the evidence of the contents of your recent posts, I’d say both. You can’t be bothered to read the evidence because you don’t understand it. If so, I can provide a very graphic reference that makes it plain in relatively simple terms. Should you want to understand.Just ask and you will be enlightened by a most interesting chap and presentation. Sadly he is no longer with us, despite his hopes of a longer life as expressed in his presentation.

Ah! You are relying on experts. In that case, you must be right! :rolleyes:
 

honeyend

Member
At what point in history has the population of the UK been declining? On the other hand, not much point in asking the question as some will never learn from history but prefer to sit contemplating their crystal balls and navels.
This is based on UN data.

I think the real threat to our planet is consumer choice and consumption.
I can just about remember going to the corner shop, which was on a corner, and buying biscuits loose in glass fronted tins, which you then put in a paper bag, had weighed, and you took them home and put them in the biscuit tin. No plastic involved and you only bought what you needed, you bought only if the tin was empty.
I must have six packets of biscuits in my cupboard, bought for Christmas, all wrapped in plastic, if I do not donate them to a food bank they will end up in the 'green' bin. It would be greener not to buy them in the first place, somewhere in the small print there will probabely be palm oil.
I remember going to the green grocers was two doors down, with sacks of spuds, carrots and weighing scales, and a slightly stronger paper bag. You bought what you needed. I must throw out veg each week , even though I try to use it all. Why is that? Perhaps because we have become accustomed to buying more than we need, just in case.
You never drank or ate out, and if you did it drink usually came a nice tin flask, battered with age. These are now being produced, very shiney and very expensive as something new so no coffee cups needed, but you can still keep your street cred.

There is always the pressure to have a bigger, newer car, the rise of the SUV, who's biggest test will be fitting in Tesco's car park, but the suggestion is if you do not have a big shiny box on wheels you must be old with poor eyesight, or some sort of social failure.
We have been brain washed into thinking success as being seen to have lots of everything, to reward ourselves, like its our birthday every day, and if you haven't got the biggest, newest thing, you can not be happy, or your children will not be happy.

If Western society can make, less is more trendy, and something to aspire to, perhaps the rise in population in Asia and Africa will not have as great a effect. We have to start at home, we have to choose not to buy more than we need, buy once and buy well, and not be not so hung up on the next shiney , glossy toy we have or want to have.
We wear our clothes forever, my stock waterproof must be ten years old, at least, and its a badge of honor. I have a bath towel that's older than my children and they are in their 30's. Good old M&S.
If it still works does the job, why replace anything?
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
I prefer to listen to the likes of Sir David Attenborough who you seem to think is a senile old fool who knows nothing so I don't think we will ever agree.

Both I and Sir David have lived a long time and I can be sure of one thing, life is uncertain and when you think you know how things are going to turn out, it will throw you a wobbly!
Attenborough made his millions and got his knighthood by flying thousands of miles around the world ....he wasn't very worried about the environment then !!
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Don’t believe what? Since you haven’t a clue and have no wish to understand, you’re opinion is absolutely worthless. Best kept to yourself so as not to show yourself up.

I understand perfectly well what you are saying.

I do find it rather amusing that you get so het up when someone you have never met and don't know chooses to disagree with you!
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I understand perfectly well what you are saying.

I do find it rather amusing that you get so het up when someone you have never met and don't know chooses to disagree with you!
I am not in the least het up. I offered to provide you with the information, but you continue to decline, prefering to argue the toss. As always I find such behaviour very amusing and help you to dig as deep a hole as befits the circumstances. I find dealing with such blatant voluntary ignorance great fun.
I knew from the beginning that it was highly unlikely that you would wish to read or watch any evidence even when offered directly to you or even posted, as one other has done to help you anyway. You pointedly ignored that and my offer of more information on your plate. Again I knew you would, which is why I didn't just post it anyway.

My guess is that you are more embarrassed than amused. I would be in your position. A lack of knowledge is easily rectified but wilful ignorance is an affliction.

My offer still stands by the way.
 
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SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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