Stubble to stubble contract.

Marius

Member
Location
Lithuania
If going back to the subject. Just out of curiosity. Would that £100/acre or whatever for s2s contract has to cover contractors expenses on labor, machinery and fuel? Or fuel is covered by landowner?
Cheers.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
If going back to the subject. Just out of curiosity. Would that £100/acre or whatever for s2s contract has to cover contractors expenses on labor, machinery and fuel? Or fuel is covered by landowner?
Cheers.

Fuel, labour & machinery is the contractor's responsibility. Of course there is the opportunity for both parties to agree anything they want but traditionally all operations and their costs are the responsibility of the contractor. I know of one S2S where the farmer kept control of the spraying, fertilising and grain store but everything else went to the contractor.
 

Marius

Member
Location
Lithuania
Fuel, labour & machinery is the contractor's responsibility. Of course there is the opportunity for both parties to agree anything they want but traditionally all operations and their costs are the responsibility of the contractor. I know of one S2S where the farmer kept control of the spraying, fertilising and grain store but everything else went to the contractor.
Thanks. So then £100/acre would barely kept you going.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Management time should be costed at £40/ac

Hard to put a figure on it as depends on how much you're doing. For filling in the paperwork for BPS, crop assurance, environmental risk assessments, agronomy, pest control, product ordering & logistics etc I'd say £40 wasn't far out.
 

dannewhouse

Member
Location
huddersfield
define a tidy farm,
is the tidy farm the 1 with the digger sat out, a small amount of stone left over and a coil of pipe thrown on top.

or is the tidy farm the yard that's been swept clean but after spraying will have mega ruts in half the fields?

tidiness is in the eye of the beholder?
fyi my farm looks like abuilding site, we try to extend a yard or building as soon as we have time/brass or both. but I consider the new buildings with level floors etc to be "tidy"
 

Explorer

Member
Childish remarks about tidy farms let’s try and get back to the subject In hand.

There are other factors which have to be brought into the cost.
The amount of paperwork involved from the contractors point of view is pretty immense.
Lots of invoicing for quarterly charges. Moling, hedging, water for ur sprayer as most fill from there home base.
Trying to split loads, work cap free loads, and keeping things separated using your grainstore is a nightmare.
3 crop rules, fine but small 100 acre farms you can easily end up tracking about After 30 acres per crop.
Contractors meetings are quarterly, and will last 2 hrs each time.
Keeping sprays separately from your own and the packaging so they pay to dispose of there own materials.
Time speant negotiating as to who pays what. Its decided to avadex a field but need it applying by a contractor as u don’t have applicator. Is it a separate pass paid by farmer or is it part of the contractors charge so you pay?
Order seed or fertiliser but because it doesn’t fall right u have to overorder or skimp, usually you overorder then spend a day explaining to the know all agent why you had to do it this way to be shot down in flames that it could have been done other ways.
Drying charges are another thing they always expect there crops in dry and they want you to pay to dry yours!
Generally it’s more hassle than it’s worth.
For £100/acre il sit on somebody else’s tractor and when it suits me il pull the stopper.
 

dieselburner

New Member
anyone got an example spreadsheet or otherwise of a cfa agreement or s2s figures share farming agreement etc dont need the figures to be genuine just wondering about finer details what needs to be included etc and profit share. currently just s2s contracting but looking at expanding acers as i see some farms locally becoming available.tia
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
anyone got an example spreadsheet or otherwise of a cfa agreement or s2s figures share farming agreement etc dont need the figures to be genuine just wondering about finer details what needs to be included etc and profit share. currently just s2s contracting but looking at expanding acers as i see some farms locally becoming available.tia
I have a share farming agreement on some spuds. The profit (or loss) is shared by the same proportion as the amount of inputs by each party. eg if one puts 60% in financially, then he gets 60% of the profit (or shoulder 60% of the loss).
Often there are some things done by both like crop walking, which are deemed equal and ignored financially. Trust is the most important element.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Stubble to stubble has no profit share.
Otherwise I'd suggest contractor and "farmer" both take the same out for their work and rent (let's not split hairs on the wording) then 50/50 on any surplus.
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
Stubble to stubble has no profit share.
Otherwise I'd suggest contractor and "farmer" both take the same out for their work and rent (let's not split hairs on the wording) then 50/50 on any surplus.

Nonsense, why not? If one is contributing over half, why short change one party and overpay the other?
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Stubble to stubble in my mind means you are paid for the task of all cultivations and land work. It's a fixed rate and likely at a high cost. A cfa arrangement is more likely to have both the contractors and landowners charge at below the true cost of the work / rent, and the profit share is designed to incentivise productivity. Landowner wants to trade *and* end up with around fbt returns.
 

D14

Member
Just looking at some benchmarking figures for labour and machinery and wondered what i could expect to pay a contractor for a full stubble to stubble operation.
North Yorks, decent field size, medium textured soils, high input / high output set up.
Thanks S

We have recently been given a price list from a good contractor. This is the total cost including fuel.
Ploughing £19/acre
Drilling £21/acre
Power Harrowing £16.50/acre
Rolling £6/acre
Combining and carting with 1 tractor and trailer £39/acre
Spraying flat rate of £3.80/ac for up to 200l/ha (water)
Liquid fert application £4.50/ac flat rate
Granular fert application £5/acre
Heston baling £5/bale
Bale carting tractor and trailer £40/hour
Loader and driver £40/hour
Those are very fair rates to secure a complete farm job. They don't tend to buy brand new equipment but they have multiple numbers of each so for example 3 combines, 4 drills, 4 ploughs, 3 power harrows, 2 sprayers etc so would try to turn up in multiples and blitz the jobs out. There is no profit share or contract farming, just simply a contractor doing the field work jobs. Interestingly they do not run any min till equipment as they have very little interest from customers, but they have just bought a no-till drill as they is being asked for more commonly.
 
We have recently been given a price list from a good contractor. This is the total cost including fuel.
Ploughing £19/acre
Drilling £21/acre
Power Harrowing £16.50/acre
Rolling £6/acre
Combining and carting with 1 tractor and trailer £39/acre
Spraying flat rate of £3.80/ac for up to 200l/ha (water)
Liquid fert application £4.50/ac flat rate
Granular fert application £5/acre
Heston baling £5/bale
Bale carting tractor and trailer £40/hour
Loader and driver £40/hour
Those are very fair rates to secure a complete farm job. They don't tend to buy brand new equipment but they have multiple numbers of each so for example 3 combines, 4 drills, 4 ploughs, 3 power harrows, 2 sprayers etc so would try to turn up in multiples and blitz the jobs out. There is no profit share or contract farming, just simply a contractor doing the field work jobs. Interestingly they do not run any min till equipment as they have very little interest from customers, but they have just bought a no-till drill as they is being asked for more commonly.
What number of ac ?? Is there a minimum are you farming in blocks any constraints on moisture at combining
 

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