Committee on Climate Change Report The Future For Farming And Land Use

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Crop feed AD units are an economic industry, not a climate impact reduction one. The fossil fuels used around here to grow and haul maize to AD units are a travesty.
There you go, its all about the money, but when I pointed to this in the great push for electric vehicles folk lined up to shoot me down. Now it's farming in the cross hairs of big money and suddenly big business is bad news after all.

Having had big tech/money go for our transport and food what's next? Our sex lives perhaps and we'll have the TFF team salivating over the latest tech that provides a milking machine type attachment and app for the lads and a suggestively shaped casing for the ladies. I mean, you do realise how unhealthy a shag actually is don't you? If just one life could be saved and all that crap. Besides which, there are far too many people on the planet anyway.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
If we cut livestock by 10% won’t that just be 10% more imports thus burning more fuel ....... etc etc ??

Concurr. But there will be a concerted effort by government in support of NGO's to encourage the population to eat less meat and thus total required home produced and imported will reduce. I am just waiting to see how government does this in a free market. Presumably health advice to start. Not sure any compulsory measures can easily and practically be applied.
 

D14

Member
Well we are in CS and will adopt any new environmental scheme and have no issues reducing the sheep numbers if we need to but what we will not be doing is planting trees. I have no problems filling in gaps in hedges or adding trees into existing woodland but no way will be be covering bare land with trees as you immediately halve the value should you ever want to sell it. This includes land that floods and even land that probably should be cropped. If its bare its got a value. Covered in trees and its worth so much less.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Concurr. But there will be a concerted effort by government in support of NGO's to encourage the population to eat less meat and thus total required home produced and imported will reduce. I am just waiting to see how government does this in a free market. Presumably health advice to start. Not sure any compulsory measures can easily and practically be applied.
Sub clinical fascism, as has already been mentioned.
 

Robin1966

Member
Hold your horses my friend.

Nobody is denying the climate is changing, it always has and always will, that's what it does, it changes. The question is to what extent is mankind responsible and to that there is no clear answer.
The key thing is probability, so if you want an absolutely clear answer, you'll be waiting forever. The question is how much risk do you want to accept? At the the moment there is a lot of risk, because most of the evidence points to human activity being the main (but not the only) driver of climate change.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
The key thing is probability, so if you want an absolutely clear answer, you'll be waiting forever. The question is how much risk do you want to accept? At the the moment there is a lot of risk, because most of the evidence points to human activity being the main (but not the only) driver of climate change.
There is risk and there is manufactured panic as a cover for ever more profiteering and subjugation.

The answer is to step out of this tiny little box that you lads have backed yourself into and start thinking of actually using the carbon as an energy management tool, just as nature does, but no, global warming/climate change has become a rigid shibolleth that must never be questioned or doubted for they that do are are unholy and (gasp) deniers!
 

Robin1966

Member
It really is as simple as you think. Get yourself inside a glasshouse and just see how much commercial growers crank up CO2 levels to get enhanced crops. As I keep saying CO2 is not the problem.
It really isn't. You cannot compare observations in a commercial glasshouse to top level climate science that studies a complex global climate and man's impact on it. That's like comparing a toy pedal car to a Subaru.
 
A red flag straight off without reading report is the cattle reduction, because if you can calculate that, then by default that means you can calculate every other variable...which no one is done, nasa are doing some work on this, mainly to workout out saturation point, i.e. at what carbon level can the earth consume and ommit. It does not have to be zero obviously, she is able to handle x amoumt, and that is some serious maths.

The question for the uk is do u want to lower emmitted carbon from your country or lower your contribution to global carbon levels. There is a big difference.

Ant...
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Concurr. But there will be a concerted effort by government in support of NGO's to encourage the population to eat less meat and thus total required home produced and imported will reduce. I am just waiting to see how government does this in a free market. Presumably health advice to start. Not sure any compulsory measures can easily and practically be applied.
The govt doesn't need to, vegans and the BBC will do it for them?
 

Robin1966

Member
There is risk and there is manufactured panic as a cover for ever more profiteering and subjugation.

The answer is to step out of this tiny little box that you lads have backed yourself into and start thinking of actually using the carbon as an energy management tool, just as nature does, but no, global warming/climate change has become a rigid shibolleth that must never be questioned or doubted for they that do are are unholy and (gasp) deniers!
Since I have respect for your particular expertise, why don't you start having some respect for someone else's expertise. You're a farmer, not a climate scientist. When I want to know about farming, I listen to farmers. When I want to know about climate change, I listen to climate scientists. By the way, it might be helpful if you didn't try to shoot someone who is on your side and trying to help you. Just a thought....
 

Robin1966

Member
Ther's a lad on here will tell you that's BS, he did me when I mentioned nutrient dilution elsewhere. But then, he grows cucumbers apparently and urged us all to eat more of them. Yeah, like that's going to work.
Is he a climate scientist though? No. Thought not. ?
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
There is much that can be said in response to that, but I will limit it to just the one point in response to your final paragraph.

A central tenet of any membership organization is this: All criticism is constructive. It is not 'knocking the NFU' for farmers to suggest ways in which the NFU could do better. The NFU staff devour everything on here. That is a thoroughly good thing. The problem, as it stands, is that too often they are reading it not to look for inspiration, but to identify troublemakers. (And, yes, I do have evidence to that effect). Change that attitude towards what is meant as constructive input, and you change the NFU for the better.

I have been a trouble maker for a long time within the NFU which I am sure Guy Smith and a few others will corroborate however my point is valid that we need a collective voice at this time of massive change that is looming over the next few months and years.
I am sorry to hear about your experience as all input should be seen as constructive. I presume from your comment that this was from a staff member and not a fellow farmer?

I note the comments about AD plants and the effect these have had where crops are being grown to supply the feedstock. If I was an arable farmer I would probably say that it is a good thing to increase the value of what I grow but as a lowly livestock farmer it increases the price of straw (which thankfully I use very little of) and increases the rental value of land which again as a livestock farmer I could never consider those rental costs anyway.
However AD should be used for waste and I will be very surprised if that is not one of the tools that is used to help with reducing Co2. In a recent visit to the Czech Republic I was impressed by how AD plants had been incorporated in large pig and dairy units that had been recently built (with EU funding).
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Since I have respect for your particular expertise, why don't you start having some respect for someone else's expertise. You're a farmer, not a climate scientist. When I want to know about farming, I listen to farmers. When I want to know about climate change, I listen to climate scientists. By the way, it might be helpful if you didn't try to shoot someone who is on your side and trying to help you. Just a thought....
Actually I'm not a farmer as such, but I dabble. As for scientists then they are only human like the rest of us and are as likely to follow the herd and reinforce the outlook and disposition of their chosen group.
 

WorkerDrone

Member
Location
Dorset
Question??
Is there an equivalent Farming Forum in France?

I wonder what the general consensus of opinion would be if it was suggested that they should adopt even some ( not all ) of the proposals currently under discussion here.

I wonder how the French Farming PR machine would address the problem ??
 

WorkerDrone

Member
Location
Dorset
"Non!" would be the response, I suspect. Followed by burning some tyres and bales in the middle of the road and covering the local council offices in muck.
You may scoff Mon Ami, but in the early 90’s a few scabby truck drivers brought the Government of the day to its knees........and it only took them 14 days ! Mind you, you are correct, they didn’t procrastinate .....just stuck together and got the job done.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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