No till and cover crops in Scotland

true blue 1872 · Feb 12, 2020

Great minds must think alike?! These topics were discussed a lot at our farm bench meeting yesterday. With wafer thin margins, when subsidies are out of the equation, poorly structured soils due to compaction, water logging, over cultivation, the majority agreed that some changes needed to be made.

Most of us will be experimenting this year, one farmer, in the group, has a Claydon & has been using it for several years. I’m keen to hire him in to sow a field of winter wheat, after vining peas this autumn and see how everything goes.

He said that he normally got a good cover crop in after winter barley but it was normally getting a bit late after winter wheat, spring barley, spring oats to be a success.

Could cover crops be broadcast successfully into a standing crop, say in mid August? I just don’t think my slug pelleter/fert spreader could throw the small seeds 28m.

One of my uni friends who used to live in a cottage on a farm near Anstruther/Crail said that the farmer had bought a Mzuri last summer & seems to be pleased with it. I think the only issue was when he tried sowing into chopped oat straw but I think the crop has come away after the straw rotted down a bit.

jh. · Feb 12, 2020

true blue 1872 said:
One of my uni friends who used to live in a cottage on a farm near Anstruther/Crail said that the farmer had bought a Mzuri last summer & seems to be pleased with it. I think the only issue was when he tried sowing into chopped oat straw but I think the crop has come away after the straw rotted down a bit.

Mzuri looks like another to kind of use an inverted T boot tine but it must take some pulling and bring up a hellish amount of stones .

Perhaps the leading tine , making the drainage is the answer up here , if cover crops don't have the time to do the job with our later establishment .

Sharpy · Feb 12, 2020

true blue 1872 said:
Great minds must think alike?! These topics were discussed a lot at our farm bench meeting yesterday. With wafer thin margins, when subsidies are out of the equation, poorly structured soils due to compaction, water logging, over cultivation, the majority agreed that some changes needed to be made.

Most of us will be experimenting this year, one farmer, in the group, has a Claydon & has been using it for several years. I’m keen to hire him in to sow a field of winter wheat, after vining peas this autumn and see how everything goes.

He said that he normally got a good cover crop in after winter barley but it was normally getting a bit late after winter wheat, spring barley, spring oats to be a success.

Could cover crops be broadcast successfully into a standing crop, say in mid August? I just don’t think my slug pelleter/fert spreader could throw the small seeds 28m.

One of my uni friends who used to live in a cottage on a farm near Anstruther/Crail said that the farmer had bought a Mzuri last summer & seems to be pleased with it. I think the only issue was when he tried sowing into chopped oat straw but I think the crop has come away after the straw rotted down a bit.

Do you get a pneumatic spreader wide enough?

Shutesy · Feb 13, 2020

jh. said:
Mzuri looks like another to kind of use an inverted T boot tine but it must take some pulling and bring up a hellish amount of stones .

Perhaps the leading tine , making the drainage is the answer up here , if cover crops don't have the time to do the job with our later establishment .

Mzuri is a strip till machine like a Claydon or a Sumo DTS but with a heavier duty cultivating leg, 1st leg cultivates with whats almost a subsoiler point on it, 2nd leg sows the seed with a coulter running in the cultivated strip. It is in no way a no-till machine like a Cross-Slot for example.

oil barron · Feb 13, 2020

SilliamWhale said:
Don't go crazy on the cover crops just work on the no till and follow the "rules" and see how you get on.

If the Finns can do it why can't the Jocks?

The summers in Finland are a lot hotter than Scotland. The heat units we have in our growing season is very very low.

Banana Bar · Feb 13, 2020

PSQ said:
[emoji897]popcorn at the ready.

I keep thinking of farm saved spring oats DD'd in the autumn (Sprinter with bean points), but it would need ploughed due to the allelopathic effect of the oats on the following spring crop ?!

I am in no position to advise as I’ve only grown my first cover crop on 60 ha this autumn. My understanding is that oats in a cover crop preceding a spring crop need to be planted at a low seed rate ( 30 kg / ha ) and sprayed off by mid November. I don’t think it matters what else goes in the mix but I mixed in some spring peas, vetch and Phacelia. I do believe diversity is important.
p.s all of my cover crop was poor this year due to early dry weather and then incessant rain.

jh. · Feb 13, 2020

Shutesy said:
Mzuri is a strip till machine like a Claydon or a Sumo DTS but with a heavier duty cultivating leg, 1st leg cultivates with whats almost a subsoiler point on it, 2nd leg sows the seed with a coulter running in the cultivated strip. It is in no way a no-till machine like a Cross-Slot for example.

Agree but perhaps for our smaller growing window , it will be the best option when the cover crops possibly won't have opened the ground up

true blue 1872 · Feb 13, 2020

Sharpy said:
Do you get a pneumatic spreader wide enough?

That’s a good idea if you own one but I’m a bit hard up at the moment! I’ve thought about a biodrill for our vaderstadt carrier but that would mean waiting until the crops are cut....

SilliamWhale · Feb 13, 2020

oil barron said:
The summers in Finland are a lot hotter than Scotland. The heat units we have in our growing season is very very low.

True. I'm not sure it should matter once the seed out the ground?

Farmer Fin · Feb 13, 2020

SilliamWhale said:
True. I'm not sure it should matter once the seed out the ground?

I think you have to remember is that some farms down south will be finished harvest before we have really started up here. It’s not unusual for second hand combines to do a season in England and then come north for the same harvest.

true blue 1872 · Feb 13, 2020

W

jh. said:
Agree but perhaps for our smaller growing window , it will be the best option when the cover crops possibly won't have opened the ground up

What do you think is the best drill for our conditions? It’s mainly grade 3 with some grade 2 land that I’m on. Some fields have some heavy clay, which can stay wet for a long time, don’t have a huge amount of stones but there are some fields with a bit more.

I agree that the mzuri looks like it needs a lot of horsepower to pull. What’s the best option when it’s wet?

Sharpy · Feb 13, 2020

true blue 1872 said:
That’s a good idea if you own one but I’m a bit hard up at the moment! I’ve thought about a biodrill for our vaderstadt carrier but that would mean waiting until the crops are cut....

Was meaning a cheap an cheerful second hand machine, or a contractor. Don't think it would be practical to rig a variocast (?) type seeder onto a spray boom due to the amount of seed required unless its something like mustard with a low seed rate.

true blue 1872 · Feb 13, 2020

Sharpy said:
Was meaning a cheap an cheerful second hand machine, or a contractor. Don't think it would be practical to rig a variocast (?) type seeder onto a spray boom due to the amount of seed required unless its something like mustard with a low seed rate.

Unfortunately I don’t know any one locally that has one, but it would be a great option. Perhaps a good second hand one would be a good option, not sure if there’s many 28m ones about or not...

Chae1 · Feb 13, 2020

Looking at Mzuri and Claydon not so much.

Are they not just a 1 pass mintill drill?

For the guys in Fife is @balbirniefarm not doing DD.

Think i heard him speak at groundswell?

KennyO · Feb 13, 2020

Chae1 said:
Looking at Mzuri and Claydon not so much.

Are they not just a 1 pass mintill drill?

For the guys in Fife is @balbirniefarm not doing DD.

Think i heard him speak at groundswell?

Are you renting any ground out for Tatties? That is my biggest stumbling block. That and baler/dung spreader traffic.
I really would like to try something different however giving up the rent income would be difficult.

Doug Ruxton at Fetercairn is using a Claydon and I think Ross Mitchell is experimenting with another make of drill.

Land is not ploughing nicely this year and not much chance of getting a frost mould now.

Chae1 · Feb 13, 2020

KennyO said:
Are you renting any ground out for Tatties? That is my biggest stumbling block. That and baler/dung spreader traffic.
I really would like to try something different however giving up the rent income would be difficult.

Doug Ruxton at Fetercairn is using a Claydon and I think Ross Mitchell is experimenting with another make of drill.

Land is not ploughing nicely this year and not much chance of getting a frost mould now.

No only did it once. Should be doing it again the way spring barley markets looking.

We wreck a lot of our light land outwintering cows.

I'm not sure muck needs ploughed in. Grass seems to respond to it pretty quickly on surface.

SilliamWhale · Feb 13, 2020

Farmer Fin said:
I think you have to remember is that some farms down south will be finished harvest before we have really started up here. It’s not unusual for second hand combines to do a season in England and then come north for the same harvest.

I do get that. I'm often cutting wheat in September as well.

You can always have a cultivator around to just cultivate and drill the same day if you want brown soil to speed up

SilliamWhale · Feb 13, 2020

Chae1 said:
No only did it once. Should be doing it again the way spring barley markets looking.

We wreck a lot of our light land outwintering cows.

I'm not sure muck needs ploughed in. Grass seems to respond to it pretty quickly on surface.

I chuck loads of muck on the surface I think its great for the soil. The worms have the chance to do their thing then and build the soil from the surface down. Why bury a load of sh!t under a lump of soil? I just don't get it!

jh. · Feb 13, 2020

Just back from a nroso meeting. Chap doing it reckons glyphosate will be away in 2 years looking at the amount of other countries banning it . If that is the case this might all be pointless

true blue 1872 said:
W

What do you think is the best drill for our conditions? It’s mainly grade 3 with some grade 2 land that I’m on. Some fields have some heavy clay, which can stay wet for a long time, don’t have a huge amount of stones but there are some fields with a bit more.

I agree that the mzuri looks like it needs a lot of horsepower to pull. What’s the best option when it’s wet?

Best drill might be someone else's so you can pick whatever style for the year

jh. · Feb 13, 2020

Chae1 said:
Looking at Mzuri and Claydon not so much.

Are they not just a 1 pass mintill drill?

For the guys in Fife is @balbirniefarm not doing DD.

Think i heard him speak at groundswell?

mzuri does look to move a lot of soil but also clear the strip of residue, that can only be a good thing for the following crop.

If I didn't have so many stones and rock heads it would probably be top of my list with fertiliser down the spout too . I just don't think tines and stones go well together , the auto reset parts of the mzuri looks very limited in its break back distance imo . Firm DD soils will punish these machines with stones , it's not like when we plough and leave the stones with a bit of movement in looser soil

No till and cover crops in Scotland

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