No till and cover crops in Scotland

oil barron · Feb 13, 2020

SilliamWhale said:
I do get that. I'm often cutting wheat in September as well.

You can always have a cultivator around to just cultivate and drill the same day if you want brown soil to speed up

shallow cultivating is a recipe for AMG in spring barley. We need to get the ground black to get the heat in it and the N mineralization to get the crop away so that we have it flowering and grain filling during the longest days.

cover crops might still be a good idea, but you only have a window of about 2-3 days to get them in the ground so you need to be able to cover the ground very quickly. Anything after the first few days of September is not going to build the biomass. Then you have to balance the cost of the seed against the yield gain. £30 acre of fancy seed takes a lot of yield to get than back. Maybe just some rape of the heap on continuous SB ground would be the answer. Can call it a crop aswell in the spring if the markets look favorable for that.

SilliamWhale · Feb 13, 2020

oil barron said:
shallow cultivating is a recipe for AMG in spring barley. We need to get the ground black to get the heat in it and the N mineralization to get the crop away so that we have it flowering and grain filling during the longest days.

cover crops might still be a good idea, but you only have a window of about 2-3 days to get them in the ground so you need to be able to cover the ground very quickly. Anything after the first few days of September is not going to build the biomass. Then you have to balance the cost of the seed against the yield gain. £30 acre of fancy seed takes a lot of yield to get than back. Maybe just some rape of the heap on continuous SB ground would be the answer. Can call it a crop aswell in the spring if the markets look favorable for that.

Do you use PDM on AMG?

Surely spring barley comes off the same time as wheat?

Honestly cover crops don't need to lead the system esp in humid climates - you get plenty of volunteer cover in spring barley anyway

Bossfarmer · Feb 13, 2020

jh. said:
I was thinking the opposite . My dad has always been a "ploughing needs done before Christmas" type for the spring cereals into heavier ground . More often than not , this has been the case as well .

This year I went into a heavy 30acre field we have to plough on the 20th November , I've now been in it 8 times and given up , with the plough as shallow as I can get away with just to try and get it done and keep the pan shallower . The last attempt was last week on a frost but as soon as the frost came out the ground mid morning , I was stopped again . The land now is coming over like a mirror and soaking wet compared to how it was in November. I have pictures but it's not pretty or clever so better not pollute this forum with them .

That was why I was thinking we would definitely need a cover crop to sook up this moisture and hopefully some big roots to open it up ?

Edit , just seen your later reply [emoji106]

heavy ground in fife? i thought it was all veg and irrigators down that way?

jh. · Feb 13, 2020

Bossfarmer said:
heavy ground in fife? i thought it was all veg and irrigators down that way?

The only veg in this stuff , is the vegetation I can't get the skimmers to bury

oil barron · Feb 13, 2020

SilliamWhale said:
Do you use PDM on AMG?

Surely spring barley comes off the same time as wheat?

Honestly cover crops don't need to lead the system esp in humid climates - you get plenty of volunteer cover in spring barley anyway

PDM is another cost (still need a broad leaved weed spray later anyway) but also another job when everyone is busy sowing. The best spray against AMG is a really good crop that smothers it out.

Wheat typically is 10-14 days behind spring barley here.

if you drive around North East Scotland in November you will see virtually zero cover, just roundupep dead grey stubble. There is no doubt covers are the right thing to do from a farming perspectvie, it’s just making it pay, or making the cost of them cheep enough.

oil barron · Feb 13, 2020

jh. said:
The only veg in this stuff , is the vegetation I can't get the skimmers to buryView attachment 858248

From the stubble looks like it grows a good crop though.

Farmer Fin · Feb 13, 2020

oil barron said:
PDM is another cost (still need a broad leaved weed spray later anyway) but also another job when everyone is busy sowing. The best spray against AMG is a really good crop that smothers it out.

Wheat typically is 10-14 days behind spring barley here.

if you drive around North East Scotland in November you will see virtually zero cover, just roundupep dead grey stubble. There is no doubt covers are the right thing to do from a farming perspectvie, it’s just making it pay, or making the cost of them cheep enough.

It won’t be long before pre harvest desiccation is band from malting barley anyway. That might keep things a bit greener.

jh. · Feb 13, 2020

oil barron said:
From the stubble looks like it grows a good crop though.

As said near start of topic. Ploughed before Christmas usually end up the best crops . Plough this late historically is cr4p.

Bossfarmer · Feb 13, 2020

jh. said:
The only veg in this stuff , is the vegetation I can't get the skimmers to buryView attachment 858248

youll need a bit of power for that stuff, is a lot of fife like this?

Bossfarmer · Feb 13, 2020

jh. said:
As said near start of topic. Ploughed before Christmas usually end up the best crops . Plough this late historically is cr4p.

whats the best wheat yield youve managed? i bet its far higher than mine

jh. · Feb 13, 2020

Bossfarmer said:
whats the best wheat yield youve managed? i bet its far higher than mine

All over the place tbh. The years after grass or osr are the best but don't have either in the rotation anymore so given up on wheat too .

Sandy · Feb 13, 2020

Our cover crop being incorporated last week mustard and raddish sown 1st week of September which is really too late

Bossfarmer · Feb 14, 2020

Sandy said:
Our cover crop being incorporated last week mustard and raddish sown 1st week of September which is really too lateView attachment 858315

nice looking soil, what you pulling that big ploo with?

SilliamWhale · Feb 14, 2020

Sandy said:
Our cover crop being incorporated last week mustard and raddish sown 1st week of September which is really too lateView attachment 858315

Looks good enough to direct drill into!

Sandy · Feb 14, 2020

That’s the plan next year it needed a few years cover crop for me to see the benefits and results of cover crops. The roots are 12” plus into the soil it’s only half the bulk on top this year but still worked well

SilliamWhale said:
Looks good enough to direct drill into!
[/QUOT

Farmer Fin · Feb 14, 2020

Sandy said:
That’s the plan next year it needed a few years cover crop for me to see the benefits and results of cover crops. The roots are 12” plus into the soil it’s only half the bulk on top this year but still worked well

Was that sown after winter or spring barley? Do you grow OSR as well?

Sandy · Feb 14, 2020

Farmer Fin said:
Was that sown after winter or spring barley? Do you grow OSR as well?

After spring barley no OSR here, our best results with cover crops are always the earliest sown mid to late August nothing fancy just a combi drill straight in to stubble

Farmer Fin · Feb 14, 2020

Sandy said:
After spring barley no OSR here, our best results with cover crops are always the earliest sown mid to late August nothing fancy just a combi drill straight in to stubble

Did you bale the straw?

Sandy · Feb 14, 2020

Farmer Fin said:
Did you bale the straw?

Yes

jh. · Feb 15, 2020

Sandy said:
After spring barley no OSR here, our best results with cover crops are always the earliest sown mid to late August nothing fancy just a combi drill straight in to stubble

What was the rate/rates and rough cost of seed .

No till and cover crops in Scotland

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Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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