Dealing with depression - suicidal thoughts - Join the conversation (including helpline details)

Lofty1984

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South wales
I admit it won't have helped the situation.

But did social media cause her to attack her partner with a lamp and for him to dial 999 at 5 in the morning cause he feared for his life?

She obviously had serious issues anyway.

Everyone's quick to point the finger.
100 % agree with you it was more an observation of trial by media be it social or mainstream it’s too easy for faceless individuals to attack others which is compounded if the person on the receiving end already has underlying issues as you rightly pointed out
 
There often appears to be a high degree of anger involved in many suicides and I was wondering if good anger management could alleviate much of what we are witnessing from day to day.

Much of what I have learned over the last sixty or so years, I wish I had really known when I was much younger.

Is 'anger' management, I wonder, a major key to unlocking the problem of suicides?
 

BobGreen

Member
Location
Lancs
All people in the public eye seem to be built up to knock down again.
I'd assume it's easy when you're loved, and every thing you read about yourself is favourable, but once the worm turns, or you blot your copybook it must be awful, but by then you're addicted to the need for adoration. Hence her still posting pictures recently, but turning comments off.
Or Davina McCall posting that 'she might be a bit quiet on social media tonight'. Ffs, her 'friend' has just killed herself and she's apologising for not tweeting much ?
Everything is far too public these days, and engineered, and false. It's all what people want you to see. 'Friends' aren't actually 'friends' at all ?

Exactly
You hear of people or know of people who have 2000 friends on Facebook but no one to talk to
Always brings to mind Crocodile Dundee. He said if you had a problem you told Wally who then told everyone else in town. Then no longer a problem
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
There often appears to be a high degree of anger involved in many suicides and I was wondering if good anger management could alleviate much of what we are witnessing from day to day.

Much of what I have learned over the last sixty or so years, I wish I had really known when I was much younger.

Is 'anger' management, I wonder, a major key to unlocking the problem of suicides?
Maybe, it's no outlet for "the mongrel" in us?

We used to have battles between tribes, wars, major adversity all around us.
Now, we live in the most peaceful and prosperous time in human history, the battle is within our own mind and body?
 

JWL

Member
Location
Hereford
It can show up in those insecure people who you will see shunning others as they've allready prepared themselves before they meet, they've had imaginary conversations in their heads and come to an entirely fictitious conclusion before they've actually got together. We've all done it ourselves, in farming there is so much more social isolation and you cannot help having a pre-run of the conversation that you're going to have with the net person you meet. The problem is that you will feel a pang of guilt and start to apologise in your imaginary conversation because you feel that you have annoyed the person by being late or you're dirty and smelly coming straight from work especially when it's a loved one. In your mind you will end up having an argument so when you do get home you are reluctant to even start a conversation and the other person will find you inward and unapproachable which deepens the rift.
I used to work in a more normal job loading lorries with a forklift and the yard manager wasn't a well liked man and sorry to say didn't help himself that much. He was shunned by all at the workplace and it was a sad sight to see him having to discipline somebody as he would shut himself in his hut for 10 to 20 minutes plucking up courage to do the deed. All the time he would have played the forthcoming scenario over and over in his head and you could guarantee that it would be a bad outcome. Most times he would come marching out, go straight to the chap and just blurt out with "You're sacked" even if it was just for a minor discretion. I ended up doing his job, he didn't leave he just used to sit in the shed all day and all the jobsheets and instructions would come straight from the office to me. Yes I did get paid the same but it was such a sad thing to see but the management hadn't got the heart to sack him, didn't matter as within 18 months our site was shut down and we were all out of a job. He went to work for a local plant hire firm but couldn't cope and ended up never working again, signed off by his doctor for stress.
 

Robt

Member
Location
Suffolk
Th
The biggest thing you learn as you get older is that you are who you are, you have no need to put on a front and pretend that you're someone you're not. Just accept that people can take you for what you are, if they don't like it then they can move on.
this is what helped me. Learning to accept who you are and that you can’t get on with everyone. Learn to agree to disagree is actually a good thing!
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
A lot wisdom in these posts.
It was always a source of anxiety to my parents that they could not change other people to agree with their outlook on life. This included family business partners. So one of the good things they accidentally taught me was not to try to change other people or get worked up about it when they disagree with you. It’s just a fact of life and it doesn’t mean other people are wrong either, just different. Let them get on with it.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
To see ourselves as others see us. To really step back and attempt this is often uncomfortable and it can be difficult to be honest about what we see.
Without wishing to run myself down too much it appears to me that I have a tendency to launch big schemes and projects while neglecting maintenance of what we already have. I reckon I have wasted thousands on things that have yielded very little over and above leaving things alone.
Ego and a certain amount of narcissism, and a belief that I am right without question hasn’t helped me if I am brutally honest. I am not saying my life has been bad. It hasn’t. But I think it helps to take stock and ask yourself how things have worked out.

All that came about as I have made the decision not to build yet another new shed but to repair the old one. Expansionist new toys madness has to stop. I am getting older.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
There often appears to be a high degree of anger involved in many suicides and I was wondering if good anger management could alleviate much of what we are witnessing from day to day.

Much of what I have learned over the last sixty or so years, I wish I had really known when I was much younger.

Is 'anger' management, I wonder, a major key to unlocking the problem of suicides?
I read this yesterday and it got me thinking about the unforseen side-effects of how we now live:


I am lucky/careful enough to have reached 50+ without taking any routine medication but this really does make me wonder if our incredible medicalisation of modern life is at the root of many of society's ills.

In case any of our international posters can't access the BBC article I copy the gist of it here below:

They’ve been linked to road rage, pathological gambling, and complicated acts of fraud. Some make us less neurotic, and others may even shape our social relationships. It turns out many ordinary medications don’t just affect our bodies – they affect our brains. Why? And should there be warnings on packets?


By Zaria Gorvett
8th January 2020


“Patient Five” was in his late 50s when a trip to the doctors changed his life.
He had diabetes, and he had signed up for a study to see if taking a “statin” – a kind of cholesterol-lowering drug – might help. So far, so normal.
But soon after he began the treatment, his wife began to notice a sinister transformation. A previously reasonable man, he became explosively angry and – out of nowhere – developed a tendency for road rage. During one memorable episode, he warned his family to keep away, lest he put them in hospital.
Out of fear of what might happen, Patient Five stopped driving. Even as a passenger, his outbursts often forced his wife to abandon their journeys and turn back. Afterwards, she’d leave him alone to watch TV and calm down. She became increasingly fearful for her own safety.
Then one day, Patient Five had an epiphany. “He was like, ‘Wow, it really seems that these problems started when I enrolled in this study’,” says Beatrice Golomb, who leads a research group at the University of California, San Diego.

Alarmed, the couple turned to the study’s organisers. “They were very hostile. They said that the two couldn’t possibly be related, that he needed to keep taking the medication, and that he should stay in the study,” says Golomb.
Ironically, by this point the patient was so cantankerous that he flatly ignored the doctors’ advice. “He swore roundly, stormed out of the office and stopped taking the drug immediately,” she says. Two weeks later, he had his personality back.
Others have not been so lucky. Over the years, Golomb has collected reports from patients across the United States – tales of broken marriages, destroyed careers, and a surprising number of men who have come unnervingly close to murdering their wives. In almost every case, the symptoms began when they started taking statins, then promptly returned to normal when they stopped; one man repeated this cycle five times before he realised what was going on.

Antidepressants may not just lighten moods, they may also reduce expressions of neuroticism, research suggests (Credit: Getty Images)

According to Golomb, this is typical – in her experience, most patients struggle to recognise their own behavioural changes, let alone connect them to their medication. In some instances, the realisation comes too late: the researcher was contacted by the families of a number of people, including an internationally renowned scientist and a former editor of a legal publication, who took their own lives.
We’re all familiar with the mind-bending properties of psychedelic drugs – but it turns out ordinary medications can be just as potent. From paracetamol (known as acetaminophen in the US) to antihistamines, statins, asthma medications and antidepressants, there’s emerging evidence that they can make us impulsive, angry, or restless, diminish our empathy for strangers, and even manipulate fundamental aspects of our personalities, such as how neurotic we are.
In most people, these changes are extremely subtle. But in some they can also be dramatic.

The list of potential culprits includes some of the most widely consumed drugs on the planet

Back in 2011, a French father-of-two sued the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline, claiming that the drug he was taking for Parkinson’s disease had turned him into a gambler and gay sex addict, and was responsible for risky behaviours that had led to him being raped.
Then in 2015, a man who targeted young girls on the internet used the argument that the anti-obesity drug Duromine made him do it – he said that it reduced his ability to control his impulses. Every now and again, murderers try to blame sedatives or antidepressants for their offences.
If these claims are true, the implications are profound. The list of potential culprits includes some of the most widely consumed drugs on the planet, meaning that even if the effects are small at an individual level, they could be shaping the personalities of millions of people.
Research into these effects couldn’t come at a better time. The world is in the midst of a crisis of over-medication, with the US alone buying up 49,000 tonnes of paracetamol every year – equivalent to about 298 paracetamol tablets per person – and the average American consuming $1,200 worth of prescription medications over the same period. And as the global population ages, our drug-lust is set to spiral even further out of control; in the UK, one in 10 people over the age of 65 already takes eight medications every week.

In the US, more than 49,000 tons of paracetamol is consumed every year - the equivalent of 298 pills per person (Credit: Getty Images)

How are all these medications affecting our brains? And should there be warnings on packets?
Golomb first suspected a connection between statins and personality changes nearly two decades ago, after a series of mysterious discoveries, such as that people with lower cholesterol levels are more likely to die violent deaths. Then one day, she was chatting to a cholesterol expert about the potential link in the hallway at her work, when he brushed it off as obviously nonsense. “And I said ‘how do we know that?’,” she says.
Filled with fresh determination, Golomb scoured the scientific and medical literature for clues. “There was shockingly more evidence than I had imagined,” she says. For one thing, she uncovered findings that if you put primates on a low-cholesterol diet, they become more aggressive.

Golomb remains convinced that lower cholesterol can cause behavioural changes in both men and women

There was even a potential mechanism: lowering the animals’ cholesterol seemed to affect their levels of serotonin, an important brain chemical thought to be involved in regulating mood and social behaviour in animals. Even fruit flies start fighting if you mess up their serotonin levels, but it also has some unpleasant effects in people – studies have linked it to violence, impulsivity, suicide and murder.
If statins were affecting people’s brains, this was likely to be a direct consequence of their ability to lower cholesterol.
Since then, more direct evidence has emerged. Several studies have supported a potential link between irritability and statins, including a randomised controlled trial – the gold-standard of scientific research – that Golomb led, involving more than 1,000 people. It found that the drug increased aggression in post-menopausal women though, oddly, not in men.
In 2018, a study uncovered the same effect in fish. Giving statins to Nile tilapia made them more confrontational and – crucially – altered the levels of serotonin in their brains. This suggests that the mechanism that links cholesterol and violence may have been around for millions of years.
Golomb remains convinced that lower cholesterol, and, by extension, statins, can cause behavioural changes in both men and women, though the strength of the effect varies drastically from person to person. “There are lines of evidence converging,” she says, citing a study she conducted in Sweden, which involved comparing a database of the cholesterol levels of 250,000 people with local crime records. “Even adjusting for confounding factors, it was still the case that people with lower cholesterol at baseline were significantly more likely to be arrested for violent crimes.”.


Fruit flies become more aggressive when their serotonin levels become mixed up, research has shown (Credit: Getty Images)

But Golomb’s most unsettling discovery isn’t so much the impact that ordinary drugs can have on who we are – it’s the lack of interest in uncovering it. “There’s much more of an emphasis on things that doctors can easily measure,” she says, explaining that, for a long time, research into the side-effects of statins was all focused on the muscles and liver, because any problems in these organs can be detected using standard blood tests.
This is something that Dominik Mischkowski, a pain researcher from Ohio University, has also noticed. “There is a remarkable gap in the research actually, when it comes to the effects of medication on personality and behaviour,” he says. “We know a lot about the physiological effects of these drugs – whether they have physical side effects or not, you know. But we don't understand how they influence human behaviour.”
Mischkowski’s own research has uncovered a sinister side-effect of paracetamol. For a long time, scientists have known that the drug blunts physical pain by reducing activity in certain brain areas, such as the insular cortex, which plays an important role in our emotions. These areas are involved in our experience of social pain, too – and intriguingly, paracetamol can make us feel better after a rejection.

Mischkowski wondered whether painkillers might be making it harder to experience empathy

And recent research has revealed that this patch of cerebral real-estate is more crowded than anyone previously thought, because it turns out the brain’s pain centres also share their home with empathy.
For example, fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) scans have shown that the same areas of our brain become active when we’re experiencing “positive empathy” –pleasure on other people’s behalf – as when we’re experiencing pain.
Given these facts, Mischkowski wondered whether painkillers might be making it harder to experience empathy. Earlier this year, together with colleagues from Ohio University and Ohio State University, he recruited some students and spilt them into two groups. One received a standard 1,000mg dose of paracetamol, while the other was given a placebo. Then he asked them to read scenarios about uplifting experiences that had happened to other people, such as the good fortune of “Alex”, who finally plucked up the courage to ask a girl on a date (she said yes).

L-dopa is the most successful treatment for Parkinson's, but it can have side effects, making people act more impulsively (Credit: Getty Images)

The results revealed that paracetamol significantly reduces our ability to feel positive empathy – a result with implications for how the drug is shaping the social relationships of millions of people every day. Though the experiment didn’t look at negative empathy – where we experience and relate to other people’s pain – Mischkowski suspects that this would also be more difficult to summon after taking the drug.
“I'm not entirely junior anymore as a researcher, and to be honest, this line of research is really the most worrisome that I've ever conducted,” he says. “Especially because I’m well aware of the numbers [of people] involved. When you give somebody a drug, you don’t just give it to a person – you give it to a social system. And we really don’t understand the effects of these medications in the broader context.”
Empathy doesn’t just determine if you’re a “nice” person, or if you cry while you’re watching sad movies. The emotion comes with many practical benefits, including more stable romantic relationships, better-adjusted children, and more successful careers – some scientists have even suggested that it’s responsible for the triumph of our species. In fact, a quick glance at its many benefits reveals that casually lowering a person’s ability to empathise is no trivial matter.

Scientists have known for a while that the medications used to treat asthma are sometimes associated with behavioural changes, such as an increase in hyperactivity

Technically, paracetamol isn’t changing our personalities, because the effects only last a few hours and few of us take it continuously. But Mischkowski stresses that we do need to be informed about the ways it affects us, so that we can use our common sense. “Just like we should be aware that you shouldn't get in front of the wheel if you're under the influence of alcohol, you don't want to take paracetamol and then put yourself into a situation that requires you to be emotionally responsive – like having a serious conversation with a partner or co-worker.”
One reason medications can have such psychological clout is that the body isn’t just a bag of separate organs, awash with chemicals with well-defined roles – instead, it’s a network, in which many different processes are linked.
For example, scientists have known for a while that the medications used to treat asthma are sometimes associated with behavioural changes, such as an increase in hyperactivity and the development of ADHD symptoms. Then, more recently, research uncovered a mysterious connection between the two disorders themselves; having one increases the risk of having the other by 45-53%. No one knows why, but one idea is that asthma medications bring on ADHD symptoms by altering levels or serotonin or inflammatory chemicals, which are thought to be involved in the development of both conditions.


There have been many reports of severe psychological change from the use of statins (Credit: Getty Images)

Sometimes these links are more obvious. Back in 2009, a team of psychologists from Northwestern University, Illinois, decided to check if antidepressants might be affecting our personalities. In particular, the team were interested in neuroticism. This “Big Five” personality trait is epitomised by anxious feelings, such as fear, jealousy, envy and guilt.
For the study, the team recruited adults who had moderate to severe depression. They gave one third of the study’s participants the antidepressant paroxetine (a kind of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)), one third a placebo, and one third talking therapy. They then checked to see how their mood and personalities changed from the beginning to the end of a 16-week treatment.
“We found that massive changes in neuroticism were brought about by the medicine and not very much at all by the placebo [or the therapy],” says Robert DeRubeis, who was involved in the study. “It was quite striking.”

The idea that antidepressants are affecting neuroticism directly is intriguing

The big surprise was that, though the antidepressants did make the participants feel less depressed, the reduction in neuroticism was much more powerful – and their influence on neuroticism was independent of their impact on depression. The patients on antidepressants also started to score more highly for extroversion.
It’s important to note that it was a relatively small study, and no one has tried to repeat the results yet, so they may not be totally reliable. But the idea that antidepressants are affecting neuroticism directly is intriguing. One idea is that the trait is linked to level of serotonin in the brain, which is altered by the SSRIs.
While becoming less neurotic might sound like an appealing side-effect, it’s not necessarily all good news. That’s because this aspect of our personalities is something of a double-edged sword; yes, it’s been associated with all kinds of unpleasant outcomes, such as an earlier death, but it’s also thought that anxious over-thinking might be helpful. For example, neurotic individuals tend to be more risk-averse, and in certain situations worrying can improve a person’s performance.

Cholesterol-lowering drugs save tens of thousands of lives every year, so people should seek medical advice before stopping taking them (Credit: Getty Images)

“What [the American psychiatrist] Peter Kramer warned us about was that when some people are on antidepressants, what can happen is that they begin not to care about things that people care about,” says DeRubeis. If the results do hold up, should patients be warned about how their treatment might change them?
“If I were advising a friend, I would certainly want them to be on the lookout for those kinds of undesirable effects, just like they would naturally be looking out for other side-effects, like whether they're gaining weight, and so on,” says DeRubeis.
At this point it’s worth pointing out that no one is arguing that people should stop taking their medication. Despite their subtle effects on the brain, antidepressants have been shown to help prevent suicides, cholesterol-lowering drugs save tens of thousands of lives every year, and paracetamol is on the World Health Organisation’s list of essential drugs because of its ability to relieve pain. But it is important that people are informed about any potential psychological side-effects.

The association with impulsive behaviours makes sense, because L-dopa is essentially providing the brain with a dose of extra dopamine

The matter takes on a whole new urgency, when you consider that some personality changes can be dramatic. There’s solid evidence that the drug L-dopa, which is used to treat Parkinson’s disease, increases the risk of Impulse Control Disorders (ICDs) – a group of problems that make it more difficult to resist temptations and urges.
Consequently, the drug can have life-ruining consequences, as some patients suddenly start taking more risks, becoming pathological gamblers, excessive shoppers, and sex pests. In 2009, a drug with similar properties hit the headlines, after a man with Parkinson’s committed a £45,000 ($60,000) ticket scam. He blamed it on his medication, claiming that it had completely changed his personality.
The association with impulsive behaviours makes sense, because L-dopa is essentially providing the brain with a dose of extra dopamine – in Parkinson’s disease the part of the brain that produces it is progressively destroyed – and the hormone is involved in providing us with feelings of pleasure and reward.
Experts agree that L-dopa is the most effective treatment for many of the symptoms of Parkinson’s disease, and it’s prescribed to thousands of people in the US every year. This is despite a long list of possible side effects that accompanies the medication, which explicitly mentions the risk of unusually strong urges, such as for gambling or sex.
In fact, DeRubeis, Golomb and Mischkowski are all of the opinion that the drugs they’re studying will continue to be used, regardless of their potential psychological side-effects. "We are human beings, you know," says Mischkowski. "We take a lot of stuff that is not necessarily always good in every circumstance. I always use the example of alcohol, because it's also a painkiller, like paracetamol. We take it because we feel that it has a benefit for us, and it's OK as long as you take it in the right circumstances and you don't consume too much.".
But in order to minimise any undesirable effects and get the most out of the staggering quantities of medications that we all take each day, Mischkowski reiterates that we need to know more. Because at the moment, he says, how they are affecting the behaviour of individuals – and even entire societies – is largely a mystery.
--
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All content within this column is provided for general information only, and should not be treated as a substitute for the medical advice of your own doctor or any other health care professional. The BBC is not responsible or liable for any diagnosis made by a user based on the content of this site. The BBC is not liable for the contents of any external internet sites listed, nor does it endorse any commercial product or service mentioned or advised on any of the sites. Always consult your own GP if you're in any way concerned about your health.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
Thought this a good idea , but the dog was having none of it
20200217_152041.jpg
 

Alwaysinit

Member
Arable Farmer
If it's not a silly question, what way does mental health work?. What i mean by that, is that is it a gradual thing that deteriorates over time or can it be like a switch being flicked?
The reason i ask is that i have been through my fair share of sh1t, infact 18yrs of it come August and i often think i must have quite a good mental health as i don't think i have ever suffered any depression or other thoughts due to it.
It does consume alot of my time most days thinking about it and in turn adds to my anger over it. If it wasn't for my cracking wife and kids im not sure what way i would be, infact i had this same conversation with my wife the other day.
I think im lucky i have what i think is a strong mind and the wife and kids but i do wonder is it something i will always have or will i wake some day to find a switch has been flicked?
 

JWL

Member
Location
Hereford
For some it can be a gradual slide, dropping you down into a state where you don't have any fight left, your spirit is quashed and you just simply cannot cope. For others it can be as you say, a switch being flicked. Think of a memory that can suddenly come back to you when you smell a certain smell, it takes you back to that time in your mind.
The human consciousness is a very complex thing and I would be very surprised to the person who says they understand it.
People are strong in different ways, having a faith in yourself and being comfortable with your own thoughts go a long way to fend off being dragged down.
 
If it's not a silly question, what way does mental health work?. What i mean by that, is that is it a gradual thing that deteriorates over time or can it be like a switch being flicked?
The reason i ask is that i have been through my fair share of sh1t, infact 18yrs of it come August and i often think i must have quite a good mental health as i don't think i have ever suffered any depression or other thoughts due to it.
It does consume alot of my time most days thinking about it and in turn adds to my anger over it. If it wasn't for my cracking wife and kids im not sure what way i would be, infact i had this same conversation with my wife the other day.
I think im lucky i have what i think is a strong mind and the wife and kids but i do wonder is it something i will always have or will i wake some day to find a switch has been flicked?

Mental health is just about as complicated as physical health, if not more so but when things do start to go wrong they are not always visible to the onlooker and receive little or no support, or sympathy. Our minds and bodies are superbly designed and balanced mechanisms and yet we consistently feed them inferior materials and also ignore waring signs at our peril.

Supressed anger can be most debilitating and energy draining; talking it through in detail can help to release some of the mental pressure that it creates. Anger, hatred, and bitterness are soul destroying and need resolving as early as possible. Having read and reread your post several times, I can't help but wonder if eighteen years of Sh1te may equal eighteen years of anger. Could you possibly share with us what some of the sh1t was and what you would have liked to have done about it? I have known of land owners who have backed up a loaded muck spreader and plastered their bank with sh1te and one chap not far from us walked out of the local tax office, bought a ladder and hammer and returned to the tax office and commenced smashing as many windows as he could. Of course, both operations solved nothing and just brought on more complications. Although not agreeing with their actions, I can certainly see why they did as they did.

Stay safe, stay well, and above all remember that you are not alone.

Chris (y)
 
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Alwaysinit

Member
Arable Farmer
Mental health is just about as complicated as physical health, if not more so but when things start to wrong they are not always visible to the onlooker and receive little or no support, or sympathy. Our minds and bodies are superbly designed and balanced mechanisms and yet we consistently feed them inferior materials and also ignore waring signs at our peril.

Supressed anger can be most debilitating and energy draining; talking it through in detail can help to release some of the mental pressure that it creates. Anger, hatred, and bitterness are soul destroying and need resolving as early as possible. Having read and reread your post several times, I can't help but wonder if eighteen years of Sh1te may equal eighteen years of anger. Could you possibly share with us what some of the sh1t was and what you would have liked to have done about it? I have known of land owners who have backed up a loaded muck spreader and plastered their bank with sh1te and one chap not far from us walked out of the local tax office, bought a ladder and hammer and returned to the tax office and commenced smashing as many windows as he could. Of course, both operations solved nothing and just brought on more complications. Although not agreeing with their actions, I can certainly see why they did as they did.

Stay safe, stay well, and above all remember that you are not alone.

Chris (y)
In my own case it is not financial, yes i have the everyday stress of financial burdens, poor weather, crap prices etc etc but so do all of us, it's nothing that a bit of sunshine can not cure.
Mine is 18yrs of family sh1t which i live in the middle of, theres no getting away from it or atleast there wasn't. You hit the nail on the head when you suggested was it 18yrs of bitterness and anger, it most definately is, and that was never me. I was always quite easy going and nothing was ever a problem, now im the exact opposite outside of the house. It affects my wife too obviously as alot of the sh1t is directed at her too, but maybe not to just as great as an extent since it is not her own family.
We have decided enough is enough and are putting measures into place to get out of here and find our own spot away from them all and leave them all to vester in their own sh1t.
 

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