Dead sheep on winter grazing

farmgineer · Feb 28, 2020

Rented some ground out for winter grazing, some of the sheep have died. Now that they have been taken off do I charge for the starting amount of grazing sheep or the finished amount? I would normally just charge for each sheep per week and knock the weekly rate down when they were reduced in numbers... but I don’t know the dates of when they died... I am tempted to split the difference but wanted to know what other people would do before I have a chat with the chap on how to charge it. Thanks

onthehoof · Feb 28, 2020

Don’t kick a man when he’s down

chaffcutter · Feb 28, 2020

We charged for numbers at the end. We did have a fair flock but I think we were down 13 in the finish but we only knew of 7, I wonder where the others went.

puntabrava · Feb 28, 2020

Get up earlier

unlacedgecko · Feb 28, 2020

farmgineer said:
Rented some ground out for winter grazing, some of the sheep have died. Now that they have been taken off do I charge for the starting amount of grazing sheep or the finished amount? I would normally just charge for each sheep per week and knock the weekly rate down when they were reduced in numbers... but I don’t know the dates of when they died... I am tempted to split the difference but wanted to know what other people would do before I have a chat with the chap on how to charge it. Thanks

I inform my landlord of sheep on and sheep off. I pay an average of the 2 for the entire period.

Northeastfarmer · Feb 28, 2020

How many has died

Bury the Trash · Feb 28, 2020

The stock owner or whoever checks them, should know when they died , surely

farmgineer · Feb 28, 2020

I just did the sums on the difference and it really wasn’t worth me asking! I’ll just invoice for the finished amount, thanks for all your help

Spencer · Feb 28, 2020

Yes, only invoice for what returns. Fairest way

Frank-the-Wool · Feb 28, 2020

Definitely only charge for what returns.
If you are concerned then in future fix a price for the grazing at the start. It will normally be less than a weekly rate though!

Al R · Feb 28, 2020

Frank-the-Wool said:
Definitely only charge for what returns.
If you are concerned then in future fix a price for the grazing at the start. It will normally be less than a weekly rate though!

I’m on quarterly’s on some land I rent on 364’s, with ewes only what gets to the next quater gets paid for. Glad everyone else has thought the same!

Dextersg · Feb 29, 2020

farmgineer said:
I just did the sums on the difference and it really wasn’t worth me asking! I’ll just invoice for the finished amount, thanks for all your help

What is the average price per head. Landlord wants me to keep news on all year round. We have to supply water tanks and all pipe and fittings and all electric fence

Al R · Feb 29, 2020

Dextersg said:
What is the average price per head. Landlord wants me to keep news on all year round. We have to supply water tanks and all pipe and fittings and all electric fence

How old are the leys? Your at total risk and they have none if it’s on 364 job and you have to do all the work/fencing etc. Realistically anywhere from 10-50p/week depending how close it is to you and how desperate you are for it! Old PP with all that work closer to 10p/week, new leys 50p/week.........

cattleman123 · Feb 29, 2020

farmgineer said:
Rented some ground out for winter grazing, some of the sheep have died. Now that they have been taken off do I charge for the starting amount of grazing sheep or the finished amount? I would normally just charge for each sheep per week and knock the weekly rate down when they were reduced in numbers... but I don’t know the dates of when they died... I am tempted to split the difference but wanted to know what other people would do before I have a chat with the chap on how to charge it. Thanks

I always pay on the amount that come out...but depends how may died if you put a 100 in and 50 died that's a different story...but highly unlikely I would think

DeeGee · Feb 29, 2020

My winter sheep grazers pay half the money on arrival and the other half in March on departure.
First payment is for the number arriving, March is for the number leaving. Doesn’t make a great deal of difference tbh, as there is rarely a great disparity in number anyway.

Anymulewilldo · Feb 29, 2020

Al R said:
How old are the leys? Your at total risk and they have none if it’s on 364 job and you have to do all the work/fencing etc. Realistically anywhere from 10-50p/week depending how close it is to you and how desperate you are for it! Old PP with all that work closer to 10p/week, new leys 50p/week.........

I'm amazed you can still get grass for 10p. Around here I've a hell of a job keeping it below 50p. But we are competing with the Welsh lads coming down over the border with pockets full of subby to spend! ??

Al R · Feb 29, 2020

Anymulewilldo said:
I'm amazed you can still get grass for 10p. Around here I've a hell of a job keeping it below 50p. But we are competing with the Welsh lads coming down over the border with pockets full of subby to spend! ??

Not winter only I’m on about, whole year I’m talking and they still get the sub but absolutely no work involved they just literally supply soil/something to stand on.
I get some land free but no one else would put stock there when you surround a 2 acre field on every side and every road to it, it’s either accept a peppercorn rent or pay someone to top it ?‍

Anymulewilldo · Feb 29, 2020

Al R said:
Not winter only I’m on about, whole year I’m talking and they still get the sub but absolutely no work involved they just literally supply soil/something to stand on.
I get some land free but no one else would put stock there when you surround a 2 acre field on every side and every road to it, it’s either accept a peppercorn rent or pay someone to top it ?‍

I'm with you. Ive stopped taking those bits of ground now. Been bitten 3 times by different people. As you say, rough bits of land with no fences, either free or peanuts rent. We've fenced it, topped it, grazed it. Then 2 years down the line i get a phone call in the spring. "I've spoken too the land agent at Browns, he's been too look at the field and says you ought to be paying £75/acre.

So I go and pick up our fencing, our field gates, our water troughs and let it go wild again.
On the last occasion the landowner got very stroppy that I was picking up my kit because he had let the field for £80/ acre to a lad from over the hill and he was coming with sheep that afternoon. I suggested he bought it all off me and save me a job. Didn't take me up on it!! They don't seem keen on signing agreements at the start stating that all the kit is mine and when I go it goes with me. I've learnt my lesson now, I watched one of them pull the same stunt on a mate of mine and he paid the £75/acre to hold onto the ground. Not sure how you would avoid this!

Dextersg · Feb 29, 2020

Dextersg said:
What is the average price per head. Landlord wants me to keep ewes on all year round. We have to supply water tanks and all pipe and fittings and all electric fence

Al R said:
How old are the leys? Your at total risk and they have none if it’s on 364 job and you have to do all the work/fencing etc. Realistically anywhere from 10-50p/week depending how close it is to you and how desperate you are for it! Old PP with all that work closer to 10p/week, new leys 50p/week.........

Thanks for reply. Much appreciated

Al R · Feb 29, 2020

Anymulewilldo said:
I'm with you. Ive stopped taking those bits of ground now. Been bitten 3 times by different people. As you say, rough bits of land with no fences, either free or peanuts rent. We've fenced it, topped it, grazed it. Then 2 years down the line i get a phone call in the spring. "I've spoken too the land agent at Browns, he's been too look at the field and says you ought to be paying £75/acre.

So I go and pick up our fencing, our field gates, our water troughs and let it go wild again.
On the last occasion the landowner got very stroppy that I was picking up my kit because he had let the field for £80/ acre to a lad from over the hill and he was coming with sheep that afternoon. I suggested he bought it all off me and save me a job. Didn't take me up on it!! They don't seem keen on signing agreements at the start stating that all the kit is mine and when I go it goes with me. I've learnt my lesson now, I watched one of them pull the same stunt on a mate of mine and he paid the £75/acre to hold onto the ground. Not sure how you would avoid this!

No one around for a few miles that could do it except for me though so I’m lucky there?
some even pay contractors to mow/rake/bale and dump the bales so having sheep there saves them having to do that and contractors arnt keen on doing 1-3 acre fields which have had stonemade campfires in them by campers the previous summer. All the ones I have are literally either between fields I’ve got on permanent or arnt more than 300m down the lane anyway

Dead sheep on winter grazing

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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