farming without an agronomist ?

snarling bee · Mar 26, 2020

If you join NIAB, and go to as many field days and conferences etc. as you can, you honestly do not need an agronomist, unless you have no interest in your crops or agronomy. And if that is the case why are you farming?? ( I'll forgive those with 500 cattle and 20 acres spring barley).
Its only the RT that then requires a BASIS No. for recommendations.

Brisel · Mar 26, 2020

loopdog said:
So as a lot of us im very tired of spending money on chemicals and not seeing a return for it .
i would like to just bang on a pre emergence and let nature take its course as often the margins dont justify and expenditure after that .
can i buy chemicals wihout been bullied into forking out my entire bank balance ??

No doubt @warksfarmer will have a similar view though he still has an indy agronomist too.

Lots of farmers do BASIS, join NIAB TAG for trials data and may or may not still have an agronomist available on the phone for backup. I'm BASIS & FACTS registered but have an independent doing crop walking too. Personally, I think that any farmer spending more than 25% of their business costs in any one area of the business needs specialist training in that aspect e.g. feed rations, mechanical skills, rather than just rely on outside help.

A full time agronomist will see more crops than you ever will - this is useful for detecting imminent risks like rust outbreaks plus they are dedicated specialists in their field, if you'll forgive the pun. Thy will know what works well & it good value as well as being on top of label changes, legislation changes. You might have some good knowledge of taxation and accounts, yet you still hire an accountant to finalise your returns to HMRC. There's a compromise in there somewhere - you could save a lot of fees by taking on the leg work yourself but the real professional who adds value to your business is usually the one having the conversation with you in the office.

I can see why farmers outsource technical jobs like agronomy or accounts to specialists if they don't have the time or interest for it, but IMO it's daft to give a big % of your costs to someone who has a vested interest in flogging you inputs to boost the bottom line of their direct employer, not you & yours.

ajd132 · Mar 26, 2020

snarling bee said:
If you join NIAB, and go to as many field days and conferences etc. as you can, you honestly do not need an agronomist, unless you have no interest in your crops or agronomy. And if that is the case why are you farming?? ( I'll forgive those with 500 cattle and 20 acres spring barley).
Its only the RT that then requires a BASIS No. for recommendations.

Spot in. Agronomy is the growing of the crop, it is farming. I don’t even know why it’s become a whole industry in itself to be honest? When did ‘agronomists’ start? We’re they original chemical advisors?

nick... · Mar 26, 2020

We are brainwashed into lots of spraying I think.ive got some barley drilled early November that’s had no spray whatsoever and it’s clean and perfectly ok at the moment.
Nick...

Stoosh · Mar 26, 2020

Are there any good online resources to learn about agronomy?

nick... · Mar 26, 2020

Google will be your friend
Nick...

DrWazzock · Mar 26, 2020

Stoosh said:
Are there any good online resources to learn about agronomy?

the basf and syngenta websites are very good. They promote their own products of course which come at a price. I joined an agronomy group and receive general updates and literature through the web. You do need to put time and effort in to work it all out though. Might be going back to an independent soon. Hopefully one who doesn’t get carried away spending money. I have saved a fortune doing it myself particularly on chemical spend but I am struggling now to keep up with fast moving changes in actives available etc.

czechmate · Mar 26, 2020

I do my own agronomy here.
If you are pressed for time, I always am, avoid broadcasting seed. It’s amazing how much longer it takes, looking for grass weeds when you don’t have undrilled strips to look at.

shakerator · Mar 26, 2020

Eventually you’ll be paying your agronomy bill through seed stacked traits

Spanish · Mar 26, 2020

Aquí hemos contratado a un ingeniero agrónomo en la cooperativa donde intercambiamos suministros y producciones. Al final, la página francesa de Arvalis me da mejores consejos, esta institución junto con AHDB son las mejores.
Conseguir la máxima producción, a veces, no es lo mejor. Debe hacer pronósticos reales y asegurarse de que el beneficio sea más barato que buscar el máximo.
Para un agricultor, las palabras "rotación de cultivos" deberían ser su guía permanente, y esas palabras rara vez las pronuncian los agrónomos, los vendedores o cualquier persona que tenga su negocio relacionado con la agricultura.

ridger · Mar 26, 2020

Spanish said:
Aquí hemos contratado a un ingeniero agrónomo en la cooperativa donde intercambiamos suministros y producciones. Al final, la página francesa de Arvalis me da mejores consejos, esta institución junto con AHDB son las mejores.
Conseguir la máxima producción, a veces, no es lo mejor. Debe hacer pronósticos reales y asegurarse de que el beneficio sea más barato que buscar el máximo.
Para un agricultor, las palabras "rotación de cultivos" deberían ser su guía permanente, y esas palabras rara vez las pronuncian los agrónomos, los vendedores o cualquier persona que tenga su negocio relacionado con la agricultura.

I'd need my sister to translate this one

Ormond · Mar 26, 2020

I'm getting a bit tired of service agronomy system.... Everytime a batch of spray is sent... it nearly always has a litre / ha of amino acids green stuff sent ...last year was about £40 for 5 litres....end up sending it back

Cowcorn · Mar 26, 2020

I do my own while following Teagasc advice and research regarding rates and cost benefit.
If you really wanted to do it on the cheap i bet you wouldnt go far wrong following Andy Doyles advice on the back page of the Farmers journal !!!

ollie989898 · Mar 26, 2020

Ormond said:
I'm getting a bit tired of service agronomy system.... Everytime a batch of spray is sent... it nearly always has a litre / ha of amino acids green stuff sent ...last year was about £40 for 5 litres....end up sending it back

If you don't want it don't use it. Cripes sending stuff like that wold get you sacked on a lot of places I used to go.

I would always ask if they wanted manganese etc or reckoned it needed it. Spraying every acre every year flat out is just wrong.

farmerm · Mar 26, 2020

Today as I put some N+S on what should be crops I was thinking I probably don't need an agronomist this year! Short of some kind of miracle I cant see how I will recover the cost of the fert I applied let alone any additional spend.. When you cant see make out the tramlines in winter wheat on 26 March....

Note to self, there is a reason why we never drill our ground after October, don't bloody do it again!! I can only hope we have a record crop of Sp Beans at £500/ton!

DanniAgro · Mar 26, 2020

Stoosh said:
Are there any good online resources to learn about agronomy?

It depends on how much you're prepared to spend - NIAB do good courses on all the basics, plus look on their sister site Artis for practical courses (present circumstances excepted) but they do cost, about £200 a pop.
If you don't want to spend so much, try using farming journals like Crop Production Magazine and Farmers Weekly and its Arable pages. They often have articles throughout the year detailing how arable farmers tackle problems, and can include detailed articles on spray products and rates. Studying these over the years has helped me a huge amount with the choice and rate of use of chemicals, and I cut out and keep an archive of helpful articles as a reference for problems in the future.
Probably others who use agronomists etc will laugh at my efforts, but it's intersting how much you can glean from a careful sceptical reading of magazines etc.
And don't forget field events that happen throughout the year, held by chemical companies, NIAB, ADAS, and local groups: they can be very useful for cornering an expert and getting on-the-spot guidance.
Not so much online but that's my road to knowledge.

ajd132 · Mar 27, 2020

DanniAgro said:
It depends on how much you're prepared to spend - NIAB do good courses on all the basics, plus look on their sister site Artis for practical courses (present circumstances excepted) but they do cost, about £200 a pop.
If you don't want to spend so much, try using farming journals like Crop Production Magazine and Farmers Weekly and its Arable pages. They often have articles throughout the year detailing how arable farmers tackle problems, and can include detailed articles on spray products and rates. Studying these over the years has helped me a huge amount with the choice and rate of use of chemicals, and I cut out and keep an archive of helpful articles as a reference for problems in the future.
Probably others who use agronomists etc will laugh at my efforts, but it's intersting how much you can glean from a careful sceptical reading of magazines etc.
And don't forget field events that happen throughout the year, held by chemical companies, NIAB, ADAS, and local groups: they can be very useful for cornering an expert and getting on-the-spot guidance.
Not so much online but that's my road to knowledge.

Don’t study those magazines too hard, often they are sponsored articles and on the extreme side.

Brisel · Mar 27, 2020

ajd132 said:
Don’t study those magazines too hard, often they are sponsored articles and on the extreme side.

Very much this

There’s no such thing as “free press” Someone is paying for that article or magazine. Just understand the agenda of the writer and sponsor. Still some useful information in there

ajd132 · Mar 27, 2020

Brisel said:
Very much this

There’s no such thing as “free press” Someone is paying for that article or magazine. Just understand the agenda of the writer and sponsor. Still some useful information in there

Yep some good info but taken with a pinch of salt

robbie · Mar 27, 2020

ajd132 said:
Don’t study those magazines too hard, often they are sponsored articles and on the extreme side.

Brisel said:
Very much this

There’s no such thing as “free press” Someone is paying for that article or magazine. Just understand the agenda of the writer and sponsor. Still some useful information in there

He did say "careful sceptical reading" so I'd say hes clued up about the hidden agenda of the articles.

farming without an agronomist ?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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