Will The Ag Bill Be The Last Nail In The Coffin Of British Farming?

Breakthru · May 14, 2020

beardface said:
The direct payment to farmers bill protects this year bps claim, but without the ag bill the government isn't bound to any future payments.

There's a huge amount of government time and public money going into coronavirus. There's still potential for a second wave later in the year. Imagine parliament being recessed in this situation. Consider the first ag bill was discussed for nearly 2 years and failed to go through before this year's Queen speech. Now imagine the ag bill doesn't make it through the house of Lords in time to be voted into law in the commons due to long debates on amendments that can be discussed in other bills. Now imagine waking up on 1st Jan 2021 with no ag bill due to said complications and the government says, "you know what there's a whole load of stuff we could spend the sub cheque on right now so we're going to not commit to what we 'promised'". Now imagine the realisation of having no bps form to complete in 2021 due to it not existing anymore and hence no transition period. Agree it sounds far fetched. But then so did brexit, trump as president and coronavirus.

Cuts left right and centred. Joe public only sees the big shiny 100k plus tractors 250k plus combines Range rovers etc every two years so Farmer Boyce has zero sympathy. I said immediately after Brexit to batten the hatches down but land, machinery and chelsea tractors were still being bought willy nilly.
In January I told my son who runs his own gym as soon as Chinky Flu emerged to buy nothing and hoard cash. My crystal ball wasn't so far wrong, he will survive unlike many others.

glasshouse · May 14, 2020

Mundell, jack and bowie all voted against holding imports to our standards
Turncoat shysters

Devil's advocate · May 14, 2020

glasshouse said:
Mundell, jack and bowie all voted against holding imports to our standards
Turncoat shysters

I'm sure you are right.

What party are they members of?

Breakthru · May 14, 2020

glasshouse said:
Mundell, jack and bowie all voted against holding imports to our standards
Turncoat shysters

How do you know when a politician is lying, their lips are moving.
Watch which way the wind is blowing and who is PAYING them and you know what they are thinking.
I am not referring to the 200k including expenses they get, that's chicken feed!

glasshouse · May 14, 2020

Devil's advocate said:
I'm sure you are right.

What party are they members of?

Scottish Tory of course
Mundell is in the borders, he will get a caning off the farmers
Jack might actuallly own a farm

Devil's advocate · May 14, 2020

glasshouse said:
Scottish Tory of course
Mundell is in the borders, he will get a caning off the farmers
Jack might actuallly own a farm

Oh dear

They do seem out of touch. I blame the leadership.

Devil's advocate · May 14, 2020

This Guy likes Boris

I find that disturbing

willy · May 15, 2020

I personally have no problem with free trade, what I do have problems with is dodgy labelling, anything with a British flag on should be uk produced, not a British flag and in the small print saying packed in the uk.

trade is a two way thing and opportunities will lie in the USA for us to sell into, I for one Don’t really fear this stall. Who in the uk is goingto buy Chlorineated chicken? The less decerning buyer who would have bought the cheapest sh!t anyway.

beardface · May 15, 2020

Breakthru said:
Cuts left right and centred. Joe public only sees the big shiny 100k plus tractors 250k plus combines Range rovers etc every two years so Farmer Boyce has zero sympathy. I said immediately after Brexit to batten the hatches down but land, machinery and chelsea tractors were still being bought willy nilly.
In January I told my son who runs his own gym as soon as Chinky Flu emerged to buy nothing and hoard cash. My crystal ball wasn't so far wrong, he will survive unlike many others.

We've hedged our bets the other way and are stocking up on kit while the sub cash is still flowing. I'm 50/50 on whether elms will even materialise. Given the current situation the cynic in me says we'll merely end up with a broadaned version of Cs aimed at SDAs.

willy said:
I personally have no problem with free trade, what I do have problems with is dodgy labelling, anything with a British flag on should be uk produced, not a British flag and in the small print saying packed in the uk.

trade is a two way thing and opportunities will lie in the USA for us to sell into, I for one Don’t really fear this stall. Who in the uk is goingto buy Chlorineated chicken? The less decerning buyer who would have bought the cheapest sh!t anyway.

Agreed. Regarding chicken and beef as I've said the government will bring EU food standard laws into British Law. Mainly to protect EU market access for the wider food and drink sector. This will mean food processes and retailers won't import chlorinated and hormone fed versions as they wont be able to sell it. However a trade deal will increase import competition for fruit, wine etc versus EU exporters. The pork sector could find increase competition, but it looks like the US is aiming its surplus at China. Our biggest threat beef wise is Brazil as they can produce a lot of non hormone export beef.

On the other side of the coin there's the potential for grass fed market access into the US. A rapidly growing area where supply is struggling with demand due to the nature of US production systems.

Courier · May 15, 2020

When the border posts are erected on the NI coastal ports and airports and KFC are using chlorinated chicken then remember that it was the dysfunctional FPTP which allowed a 47.6 % minority party to have an 80 seat commons majority.

Sid · May 15, 2020

Why is there law to prevent toys of a substandard from entering the UK , yet the government have just voted to let food in that would be illegal and below our welfare/environmental standards to feed our children.

GeorgeK · May 15, 2020

It's not a free market when we're forced to meet ludicrous standards that customers don't ask for and that don't add value to our produce. I wonder how much more Americans would be prepared to pay for UK food because we can't spread fertiliser if a field has been frozen for more than 12 hours in the previous 24 hours?

Devil's advocate · May 15, 2020

GeorgeK said:
It's not a free market when we're forced to meet ludicrous standards that customers don't ask for and that don't add value to our produce. I wonder how much more Americans would be prepared to pay for UK food because we can't spread fertiliser if a field has been frozen for more than 12 hours in the previous 24 hours?

Pretty sure they could not in USA (can now) certainly not allowed in Canada

steveR · May 15, 2020

glasshouse said:
Scottish Tory of course
Mundell is in the borders, he will get a caning off the farmers
Jack might actuallly own a farm

You would like to think so, but the blinkers will come on for the next election....

An Gof · May 15, 2020

GeorgeK said:
It's not a free market when we're forced to meet ludicrous standards that customers don't ask for and that don't add value to our produce. I wonder how much more Americans would be prepared to pay for UK food because we can't spread fertiliser if a field has been frozen for more than 12 hours in the previous 24 hours?

There’s quite few regulations in the States concerning farming practices and water quality and issues etc. It’s not quite the “Wild West” that you imagine.

N.Yorks. · May 15, 2020

Frank-the-Wool said:
Any Law put in place about Agriculture should have a first priority of food production to ensure your nation has a guaranteed supply of healthy and nutritious products that are produced to high environmental and welfare standards and in so doing you ensure your farmers are able to do this in a sustainable way.

The problem with the Ag Bill is that it has very little about sustainable food and a great deal about farmers delivering "public goods for public money" whatever that may mean. A great deal about how the ELMS scheme will replace BPS but nothing about how the latest crisis has impacted food supply chains.

Many Brexit MP's believe the Bill will help to remove us from EU regulations and as such this will help in setting up trade deals with the USA, Australia and NZ plus many others. Lip service will be made to our high welfare standards I am afraid.
If anyone thinks the EU will accept lower standards of food production for what we send to them needs their head examining, would we accept it the other way round!

Public goods are described as things like clean water, air, biodiversity basically stuff we think comes for free just because it's there. Whats the point in polluting the water in the first place just to have someone else clean it up at great cost before it's fit to drink by us..... doesn't make much sense does it?

Study showed that in an arable system if biodiversity increased by 10% the yield increased by 8% in the short term then increased by 30% in the long term. We've got a skewed appreciation of what improves yields and margins......... so being payed by ELMs to increase biodiversity if it's done with a bit of thought is a win win.

ELMs should transform agriculture, better for farmers and better for everyone else. I think we're all scared as it's not business as usual, but when has agriculture just stayed the same, Turnip Townsend, mechanisation, robots - change happens.

SilliamWhale · May 15, 2020

willy said:
I personally have no problem with free trade, what I do have problems with is dodgy labelling, anything with a British flag on should be uk produced, not a British flag and in the small print saying packed in the uk.

trade is a two way thing and opportunities will lie in the USA for us to sell into, I for one Don’t really fear this stall. Who in the uk is goingto buy Chlorineated chicken? The less decerning buyer who would have bought the cheapest sh!t anyway.

I agree broadly.

The only thing is we are effectively saying to the public this is not good enough standard for us to produce here but its ok to do it abroad and bring it in. And I think there may be opportunities in this as well, and this may be an opportunity to mobilise and articulate more against lazy and deceitful labelling and quality standards.

Its like saying we can import and use tractors with no adblue into this country because they were produced abroad. Its just a double standard that would be illegal.

SilliamWhale · May 15, 2020

Courier said:
When the border posts are erected on the NI coastal ports and airports and KFC are using chlorinated chicken then remember that it was the dysfunctional FPTP which allowed a 47.6 % minority party to have an 80 seat commons majority.

But it doesn't have to be like this if we don't want to. Everyone must guard against extremism

beefandsleep · May 15, 2020

Breakthru said:
C19 might be your saviour. Shorter supply lines required. However farming has been over subsidised since 1973 so a correction is due.
The idiots in the planning allowed building on flood plains, lets not go there on getting rid of 50% of the civil service. Thick Tw#ts.
The Hills need to be covered in trees to stop the water coming down, not in Subsidised Sheep.
The majority of farmers voted Brexit, Turkeys and Xmas???? I will allow you to decide. You got what you wished for, SUCK ON IT!
The positive for you is the supply industry to Agriculture will suffer far more.
As in NZ 10% of mainly over geared farmers went Bust when subs were removed overnight, 90% of the supply industry went Bust!

Why is the supply industry potentially being hit even harder a positive?

Frank-the-Wool · May 15, 2020

N.Yorks. said:
Public goods are described as things like clean water, air, biodiversity basically stuff we think comes for free just because it's there. Whats the point in polluting the water in the first place just to have someone else clean it up at great cost before it's fit to drink by us..... doesn't make much sense does it?

Study showed that in an arable system if biodiversity increased by 10% the yield increased by 8% in the short term then increased by 30% in the long term. We've got a skewed appreciation of what improves yields and margins......... so being payed by ELMs to increase biodiversity if it's done with a bit of thought is a win win.

ELMs should transform agriculture, better for farmers and better for everyone else. I think we're all scared as it's not business as usual, but when has agriculture just stayed the same, Turnip Townsend, mechanisation, robots - change happens.

The single problem with "Public goods" are just that how does anyone put a value on it. It could be entirely different to someone farming on the edge of an urban area to a farmer in the depths of East Anglia.
Biodiversity increase will always be a good farming practice and I would like to know what this study was and in what area? Increasing pollinators and natural pest controllers will have a good effect but how is it valued and what is the science that says this will increase by 30% in the long term.

My criticism of the environmental schemes that exist at the moment have been in most (not all) situations very beneficial for the wildlife and the environment. The problem became that these were increasingly complex as the bean counters wanted to measure results. The issues of the old schemes, many of which have been going for over 40 years now is that the payment system has failed those farmers who have some of the most important schemes in the country. These are all schemes that have a high cost to run as they mostly require inputs to maintain them at a cost.
The old schemes were originally based on "loss of profits" and payments were made in advance to the agreement holders. Unfortunately the link between profitability and the complex ideals that exist in the new schemes have been lost.

The new ELMS scheme will have no guarantees on funding and will be subject to the vagaries of Spending Reviews which will be a very easy target over the next few years as the massive debt of C19 has to be paid for.
I will not be a fan of the ELMS scheme or any other until the existing schemes are correctly funded and any new plan has some long term guarantees.

Will The Ag Bill Be The Last Nail In The Coffin Of British Farming?

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Up to 25%

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50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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