I fear

BobGreen

Member
Location
Lancs
You what , these lot on furlough are lovin it , every excuse to not return , social distancing for ever
Some are treating this as an extended holiday. Financially they are no worse off on 80% wage. Boris easing of lockdown rules was taken as we can go where we want so on a hot day they crowd the beaches
When the furlough ends,and it will, these people crowding the beaches and elsewhere and potentially creating a second wave of infection will be the first to refuse to go back to work as they are too frightened!!
 

hoff135

Member
Location
scotland
The situation is pretty simple. We get a vaccine and we return to normal. If we dont get a vaccine then we return to normal anyway. If an individual wants to take precautions then thats up to them. The rest of us will get on with it.

Hopefully we will know in a few months if a vaccine is possible. If not i dont see the need for the younger generations continuing to live with this situation. Our ancestors lived with worse.
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
The situation is pretty simple. We get a vaccine and we return to normal. If we dont get a vaccine then we return to normal anyway. If an individual wants to take precautions then thats up to them. The rest of us will get on with it.

Hopefully we will know in a few months if a vaccine is possible. If not i dont see the need for the younger generations continuing to live with this situation. Our ancestors lived with worse.
I agree , but some folk are hell bent on dragging this out .
I expect the govt will struggle until the furlough scheme finishes .
 

hoff135

Member
Location
scotland
I agree , but some folk are hell bent on dragging this out .
I expect the govt will struggle until the furlough scheme finishes .
Oh yes some will have us locked down until a vaccine is found. Even though that us in 10 years. Completely unsustainable.

Hopefully by autumn we will know if the vaccines in development are going to work.

If they dont then i suggest phasing out restrictions over a few months to ease pressure on the nhs. Sadly they are the ones that are going to have the worst of it. As far as every one else goes if they wont return to work they will have to resign. Perhaps furlough can continue for those in the at risk groups till the rest of us build some sort of immunity.

Without a vaccine there is no answer. Dragging it out for years is simply a can kicking exercise.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
The situation is pretty simple. We get a vaccine and we return to normal. If we dont get a vaccine then we return to normal anyway. If an individual wants to take precautions then thats up to them. The rest of us will get on with it.

Hopefully we will know in a few months if a vaccine is possible. If not i dont see the need for the younger generations continuing to live with this situation. Our ancestors lived with worse.


Concur with your view but without a vaccine I doubt somehow government will allow us to truly return to normal. I anticipate some of social distancing restrictions enforceable by law. On for example public transport, sporting and social venues - places that will have no option but to adhere. hey ho.
 
the second wave will hit the places that have not had many case

in the 1968 hong kong flue pandemic the second wave killed more than the first
there was no lock down but London transport had a driver shortage milk and mail could not be delivered due to staff off sick

without the lockdown we would now have a much bigger problem with deaths in areas that have had very few so far
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
the second wave will hit the places that have not had many case

in the 1968 hong kong flue pandemic the second wave killed more than the first
there was no lock down but London transport had a driver shortage milk and mail could not be delivered due to staff off sick

without the lockdown we would now have a much bigger problem with deaths in areas that have had very few so far
And what evidence have you derived this load of bollox from ?
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
Oh yes some will have us locked down until a vaccine is found. Even though that us in 10 years. Completely unsustainable.

Hopefully by autumn we will know if the vaccines in development are going to work.

If they dont then i suggest phasing out restrictions over a few months to ease pressure on the nhs. Sadly they are the ones that are going to have the worst of it. As far as every one else goes if they wont return to work they will have to resign. Perhaps furlough can continue for those in the at risk groups till the rest of us build some sort of immunity.

Without a vaccine there is no answer. Dragging it out for years is simply a can kicking exercise.
They obviously won’t be able to manufacture a vaccine quick enough, start on all the over 50’s and then drop every 10 year age group when more is manufactured. That would then mean that potentially the less at risk younger population will potentially still be catching the virus until their vaccinated but at least the hospitals could cope with far fewer admissions.
It’s very easy for those of us in the lower risk category to say lift restrictions etc etc but those that are in the high risk categories or over 65’s I’ve spoke to have all said keep it going as long as possible.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
The information is freely available on the the internet :scratchhead:
That's true and from that information you can pick the information you need to justify your case.
My favourite man of the moment is Michael Levitt a Stanford professor who says that lockdown in the U.K has probably not saved lives but actually cost lives. Then I checked up CV19 in Lincolnshire on average over the past 5 years for April there have been 682 deaths per month. This year in April there have been 1033 deaths an excess of 351 however of these only 158 are down to CV 19 there are an extra 193 deaths attributed to other non CV 19 causes probably people unable to get treatment for pre existing conditions because everything was shut down for the Virus.
The fallout from the Virus will affect far more people than the Virus ever could.
That's what you should be frightened of.
 
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Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
That's true and from that information you can pick the information you need to justify your case.
My favourite man of the moment is Michael Levitt a Sanford professor who says that lockdown in the U.K has probably not saved lives but actually cost lives. Then I checked up CV19 in Lincolnshire on average over the past 5 years for April there have been 682 deaths per month. This year in April there have been 1033 deaths an excess of 351 however of these only 158 are down to CV 19 there are an extra 193 deaths attributed to other non CV 19 causes probably people unable to get treatment for pre existing conditions because everything was shut down for the Virus.
The fallout from the Virus will affect far more people than the Virus ever could.
That's what you should be frightened of.
I was responding to @bobk ‘s decrial of @yellow belly ’s post re the Hong Kong flu epidemic , which was factually correct.
No action of any government can stop death, however if hospitals became overwhelmed as they certainly did in Italy and Spain , that too would have lead to the deaths of many of those side casualties anyway. Certainly the looming recession will cause deaths, but how many, is impossible to quantify. Some deaths will have been caused by delayed surgery, however would you want to have patients recovering from cncer and heart surgery being heavily exposed by patients alongside dieing of coronavirus. Nursing of infectious diseases requires isolation of patients from non infected, not possible if the hospital is over run.
I personally believe the epidemic has been handled very badly. The Nightingale hospitals erected with much drama and presumably great cost in terms of not just money but materials and man time, have not been used, instead of using them as isolation hospitals as they should have been, allowing the regular hospitals to get back to what they were designed for.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
I was responding to @bobk ‘s decrial of @yellow belly ’s post re the Hong Kong flu epidemic , which was factually correct.
No action of any government can stop death, however if hospitals became overwhelmed as they certainly did in Italy and Spain , that too would have lead to the deaths of many of those side casualties anyway. Certainly the looming recession will cause deaths, but how many, is impossible to quantify. Some deaths will have been caused by delayed surgery, however would you want to have patients recovering from cncer and heart surgery being heavily exposed by patients alongside dieing of coronavirus. Nursing of infectious diseases requires isolation of patients from non infected, not possible if the hospital is over run.
I personally believe the epidemic has been handled very badly. The Nightingale hospitals erected with much drama and presumably great cost in terms of not just money but materials and man time, have not been used, instead of using them as isolation hospitals as they should have been, allowing the regular hospitals to get back to what they were designed for.
I have always been against the idea of lockdown but believe the government had no choice because of media influence and some very dubious figures from Imperial College however now there has to be serious analysis of the victims. It seems diabetics and the obese are at risk not the younger generation so we need to start using this data to inform people as to their level of risk.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
What I fail to understand is the measures that are being put in place with PPE and insurance risk yet no health professional has ever worried about the risk of spreading flu to patients/customers.
If I've caught the flu from going to see my dentist can I sue?
The first time the sue word came up was when the teaching unions got involved. They're gonna sue apparently if one of their members develops symptoms. No thought for the part of the population that has been working through all this without ever thinking about the sue word. Somebody needs to have a long hard look at themselves, and possibly give themselves a slap.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
The first time the sue word came up was when the teaching unions got involved. They're gonna sue apparently if one of their members develops symptoms. No thought for the part of the population that has been working through all this without ever thinking about the sue word. Somebody needs to have a long hard look at themselves, and possibly give themselves a slap.
Give themselves a slap?

I would have said that there would be a queue to do that........after donning some PPE of course ?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I have always been against the idea of lockdown but believe the government had no choice because of media influence and some very dubious figures from Imperial College however now there has to be serious analysis of the victims. It seems diabetics and the obese are at risk not the younger generation so we need to start using this data to inform people as to their level of risk.

Just have a look at the graph of deaths. If we hadn’t had lockdown and the initial slope of the graph had continued as it started we would probably be at 100,000 deaths by now and still climbing. It might have peaked thereafter and started to decline, maybe, so we might have got the whole thing over sooner rather than it being a protracted affair. But it might not have reached the peak till September or Christmas overwhelming the health service and adding even more deaths from other causes as a result never mind the loss of life of health workers subject to more viral loading.
I’d like to agree with you, I really would, and I do partially, but I can’t say, from the evidence I see, that letting it run would have ended very well. Maybe now that it has sadly claimed the most susceptible, it will no longer be self sustaining particularly if have had it than we realise. I really do hope so and that things can return to normality sooner rather than later.
 

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