Tescorona

Goweresque said:

Given CV is a disease of people, not shipping containers, unless you plan to lock every country down in a North Korea style with no one coming in or out, diseases will travel. The Black Death managed to travel from the East to the UK, albeit slowly, in an era when the only travel was sailing ship, horse or by foot. Similarly the Spanish Flu of 1918/19 went all around the world in an era when most people still hardly travelled outside of their county.

People travel, diseases travel with them. It has nothing to do with globalisation.

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Ah, but globalisation has created more extensive business travel and the profit from it in part has enabled tourists to travel to all corners fk the globe has it not!

delilah said:

I think you understand my point.
If a farm shop owner, or any other food retailer outside of the 'big six', wishes to make their home delivery service known to homebound residents - be it nationwide or in their postcode area - will the NHS facilitate this ?
Or is it, as I suggest, a pure and simple case of bias ? Actually bias is too soft a word, it's corruption, just as so many of the dealings conducted in the area of market share are corrupt.
There is probably little point in us debating it further until I obtain answers to my three questions.

As for timing. I have been banging on about this issue for 30 years. You think I will drop it at this precise moment, just as these issues are higher up the agenda than they have ever been ? No chance.

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Of course it's biased - biased towards businesses with the biggest reach & ability to serve the customers, biased towards companies that have adequate data protection in place, biased towards businesses with a proven track record, biased towards the NHS dealing with as few retailers as possible so that they can get on with focusing on the more important issue of dealing with the current pandemic! Does that constitute corruption? Not in my book!

dont forget ash dieback , another imported problem , in the rush to plant trees 20 years ago , now they want to do it again

delilah said:

You will appreciate, of course, that all of those 'efficiency' arguments can be used to justify getting rid of 95% of the farming businesses in the UK. If everyone on here is happy with that, fine, you crack on

Anyway, they're not exactly meeting your expectations, are they. From reports on here and elsewhere folks can't get a delivery slot for weeks. There's plenty of farm shops who, from a standing start, have introduced 'click and collect' and home delivery and are working on a 24-48 hr turnaround.

I learned many years ago that the worst section of society for supporting farmers selling direct is farmers. I have had some mind-boggling conversations with farming families who think that such initiatives are for 'the public' and not them. Nothing should surprise me anymore. Nevertheless I am dumbfounded by the tenacity with which, even in these exceptional times, farmers still refuse to support their fellow producers.

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Anyone who has registered on the NHS website having received a letter will be contacted by Tesco with details of how to access priority delivery slots - these slots are ring-fenced for use by the NHS priority customers, hence why non priority customers are struggling to get slots. I'm guessing that the same applies for the other supermarkets involved. I'm fully aware of the work that many farm shops etc have put in & applaud their fantastic efforts, but I am not aware of any that have the capacity & range of essential goods that is required to be effective. I don't see many farm shops selling sanitary items, nappies, infant food/formula, bin bags, cleaning products, pharmaceutical products, etc. & even if all the "farm shops" in the country banded together as a cooperative they still wouldn't be able to address a significant portion of the required capacity. It's also worth bearing in mind that given the choice between a priority delivery slot from a major supermarket or being serviced by a farm shop I think we all know that the majority of customers will opt for the Supermarkets.

Those "efficiency arguments" relate to dealing with an immediate national crisis & bear no relationship to "getting rid of 95% of farming businesses" - the NHS have enough to do at this without having to deal with several thousand small businesses looking for a piece of the action.

Instead of moaning about the immediate situation, how about putting together a longer term strategy to present to the government so that the next time a crisis occurs "Farm Shops UK" are ready to hit the ground in a coordinated fashion...

delilah said:

Just sharing this here in case anyone wants to pick bits out of it for their own lobbying.

Good morning all

Sending this to my 10 favourite national organisations. Hope you are all safe and well.

As some of you know, I have for the last 30 years been banging on that ‘market share is the root of all evil’. More people should have listened in peacetime, because right now we are seeing the cover of coronavirus being used to hammer the lid down on any chance of a sustainable food system.

Day by day:
- Tesco are using their ownership of Booker to determine exactly what they want the ‘independent’ retail sector to look like after this is over.
- Anyone who doubted who really sets Government food policy just has to look at the way in which the NHS is feeding sensitive information to the supermarkets.
- Tesco are making as much profit via state support such as rate relief, as the entire UK charity sector is getting in Government aid.
- We are learning that it is completely safe to buy your booze, electrical goods and clothes at a supermarket, but deadly to do so at an independent retailer.

Our entire independent business sector is being decimated and handed over to the supermarkets. Rural and inner city areas alike will have no independent businesses left.
Just one example, this desperate (and doubtless futile) plea from the Petrol Retailers Association:
'The PRA is recommending that the Government must instruct fuel suppliers to give the same 60-day credit terms to independent filling stations as they give to the major supermarkets.'
This will be the final straw for hundreds of independent filling stations, and tens of thousands of independent businesses.

Too big to fail. That’s what coronavirus has shown us the supermarkets are. Whatever they want, they will get. Any economy that allows any private sector business to be ‘too big to fail’ is in need of urgent structural reform.

Is anyone, at the 11th hour, going to do anything to protect our food system – indeed our entire society - from total control by global corporations ?

yours etc


CSA UK
Landworkers Alliance
NFU
Plunkett Foundation
Rare Breeds Survival Trust
Soil Association
School for Social Entrepreneurs
Social Farms and Gardens
Sustain
Sustainable Food Trust

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So, any evidence to back up your claims made above ?

TheTallGuy said:

So, any evidence to back up your claims made above ?

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delilah said:

Plenty, but why should I bother.

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That will be a no then. But don’t bother trying on account of me - I’ve already formed an opinion that you throw assertions around like confetti, have an irrational hatred of capitalism (yet are posting on a site mostly frequented by business people) and have no ability to see the bigger picture beyond your own prejudices, which you prefer to think of as principles to think you’re superior to the rest of us.

I didn't acknowledge what you posted because I didn't ask for your strategy - you were complaining that the big chains were the ones to be dealing with the government regarding the NHS Vulnerable list - I merely suggested that you should produce a strategy document for the Government as to how smaller businesses could be part of the solution for future events. Your documents do not address this & to be honest the contents hardly constitute a policy or strategy document, it comes across as more of a rant rather than a well-reasoned document that backs up the claims made.

I haven't anywhere suggested anywhere that an increased market share is in any way good for any of the groups you've mentioned - I have merely asked that you back up your assertions & in a couple of instances provided counter arguments.

As an example you claim that Tesco are "profiting" from business rate relief - I would love to know how you've arrived at that conclusion given that Tesco are "benefitting" to the tune of £585 million from the rate relief, but their best case scenario sees costs of dealing with the pandemic being £650 million & up to £925 million depending on how things go! https://www.standard.co.uk/business...fails-to-outstrip-covid19-costs-a4410016.html

Another example, you claim that the NHS is "feeding sensitive information to the supermarkets" - had you bothered to investigate how the system works you would have discovered that it's an opt-in system. Those on the vulnerable list have been invited to register their requirements either online or by phone before their details are passed on to the supermarkets. My mother is one of those who received the letter, but chose not to register as I can shop for her; her details have not been sent to the supermarkets & therefore she is unable to get a priority slot without applying directly to the supermarkets.

Supermarkets are already open & staffed, therefore it makes sense to allow clothing etc to be purchased there. If you knew anything about what’s going on in supermarkets you would realise that despite being allowed to sell all manner of stuff the reality is that in many instances sales of items such as clothing has plummeted -
https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blo...orders-seek-discounts-with-fashion-suppliers/ - interesting to note that the Great Satan is still going to pay their suppliers in full. Another item of note is that independent retailers are allowed to continue to sell booze & off licenses are allowed to remain open including those inside breweries - https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...her-businesses-and-premises-to-close-guidance

For decades farmers complained about the power of supermarkets and the concentration of market share. This seems to have stopped as the majority have accepted the situation. The current crisis has highlighted many weaknesses in our "just in time, efficient" supply chains. The major lesson from cv will be that we need to do things differently. We should have learned from the banking crisis that any corporation that is too big too fail should be broken up.

This is not anti capitalist it is anti corporate globalization where the said corporations have more power than many countries. Capitalism is a system of many businesses in fair competition a very different thing to what we have.

delilah said:

Well that's rubbish, as our submission contains several policy suggestions. Could you post your submission to the National food strategy; having a keen interest in the subject I assume you made one ?

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Yes, your submission had policy suggestions, but none that were evidence backed - hence why I said it comes across as a rant. Your documents have some numbers in it, anyone can put numbers in a document, if you don't cite credible sources you are no different to the bloke down the pub saying "80% of all statistics...." or "all farmers are rich..." . As an example - "40% of all road freight is food" - can you back that up, because I can't find anything, but going by the tables from here https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/transport-statistics-great-britain-2019 I would say it's somewhat lower.

You claim that "lorries continually circle the M25 waiting for a mobile call telling them which supermarket needs a ‘just in time’ delivery..." - again do you have any credible evidence to back that up because I've never met a driver yet that has ever done anything of the sort.

As far as I can see some of the suggestions made are frankly ludicrous unless I am being thick - please enlighten me as to how "no single business to be responsible for more than 1% of UK food retailing" can be made to work, even the 10% suggestion is hardly credible in my opinion.

I did not submit anything myself because at the time I was busy with other issues & to be honest I am somewhat sceptical that anything will come of it!

delilah said:

OK, then, what is your view ? Do you think that the consolidation of market share in food retailing is good or bad for farmers, consumers and the environment ? You must have a view ?

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I have a window, but the view isn't great as there's a building in the way. On the other question, my opinion is irrelevant because I'm not the one banging on the drum & bandying questionable information around.

delilah said:

Read my letter again. Rate relief is just one aspect.
In peacetime, the supermarkets benefit to the tune of millions of pounds a day by way of taxpayer support.
This is the great lie of a centralized food system: That it is cheaper for the masses.
It may (or may not) be cheaper at the till, but that is only because the taxpayer picks up the tab for all the other costs that society carries to make it so. If food is so cheap, how come millions of people are struggling ? Because they are being taxed through the nose - road fuel tax, vat, income tax, - to pay for the infrastructure that the centralized food system fundamentally relies on.

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You chose to major on the rate relief which as a big number is a nice juicy target, but as I have pointed out the benefit of that relief is predicted to be far outweighed by the increased operating costs. Those hidden subsidies in the form of infrastructure paid for by taxes are available for all to benefit from. Take the supermarkets out of the equation and that infrastructure is still needed unless absolutely every aspect of life is returned to a pre-industrial revolution format, again cue rapid depopulation of society...

delilah said:

Er, so were thousands of independent clothes shops, until they were told that they couldn't be. What sort of a nonsense statement is that ?

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Yes, but those shops aren't open at the moment selling essential stuff, whereas food shops are. Opening up clothes shops etc increases the number of places people visit & hence the likelihood of increased virus transmission, whereas people only visiting the limited number of supermarkets is safer. Most farm shops around here sell non essential items - shall we ask them to stop selling their imported tat too? Of course an order could be made to restrict everything down to the bare minimum essentials, but where does that stop? Should Easter Eggs have been banned? Maybe greetings cards too, and how about magazines, stationery.... You've also ignored the fact that although purchasing such things as clothing is still permissible, those sales have largely plummeted within the supermarkets!