Rates on old house - want to stop paying

Davy_g · May 31, 2020

I have been paying rates on an old house in the farmyard for a long time. Not been lived in for over 25 years. Pretty run down now. A replacement dwelling was passed for it some 20 years ago.
I called LPS to get it derated and the chap quoted case law to me and told me unless I took the rook off it I would have to pay.

My intention is to try and get it condemned on H&S grounds - damp or unstable chimney breasts. Any ideas how to best go about this as it seems it’s a government body is supposed to do it.

TripleSix · May 31, 2020

Why don't you just demolish it if it's knackered?

Or do it up and rent it out?

Dave79 · May 31, 2020

I’ve heard of people being told to stack some bales in it, and then say it’s an agricultural store, so no rates. Not sure if it’s right or not though, and wether it might affect future planning as well.

caveman · May 31, 2020

Sell the whole steading for development and build a new up to date steading elsewhere?

Dave645 · May 31, 2020

Davy_g said:
I have been paying rates on an old house in the farmyard for a long time. Not been lived in for over 25 years. Pretty run down now. A replacement dwelling was passed for it some 20 years ago.
I called LPS to get it derated and the chap quoted case law to me and told me unless I took the rook off it I would have to pay.

My intention is to try and get it condemned on H&S grounds - damp or unstable chimney breasts. Any ideas how to best go about this as it seems it’s a government body is supposed to do it.

While your plan seems ok and basically you only need a structural engineer to say it’s too unsafe to be habitable at a guess. If this is not the case why haven’t you got a tenant in it or had them for 25 years.

I would Renew the planning application Or get new planing and knock it down. If the intent is a new build on its site, at some point. Once the planning is in place the old house can be demolished it’s bricks reclaimed at a £1 each, its timbers reclaimed and you stop paying out, for insurance and keeping it secure. If it’s not insured then one fire you have lost the lot.
Yes old imperial brick sell for a £1 each.
while all of the above are stabs in the dark as you provide little to know info to go on. Other than you want to stop paying rates. It maybe damp and have unsafe chimney breasts.

now if some family thing or inheritance is in play then your condemned plan is your best bet if you don’t want planning, but be warned even if condemned, or knocked down it maybe valued as a potential building plot regardless of what you do for inheritance tax purposes. So in the end you may be better doing it up and getting a tenant in it or knocking it down and building. And at least having the income from it, or just selling it as is.

goodevans · May 31, 2020

Your lucky you dont have to pay double, in England if a dwelling is unoccupied for more than 24 mths its 200 %.I think if you take kitchen or toilets out can get them classified as uninhabitable

Goweresque · May 31, 2020

You need to approach the problem from the other end. The bit of the council that deals with council tax isn't going to want to agree its uninhabitable, because it wants you to go on paying the tax. But there will be another bit of the council that is responsible for overseeing rented accommodation, whose job is to condemn unfit houses. Thats the people you want looking at it. But its no good you asking, because the mentality of the average council official is that they want to tell the landlord something he doesn't want to hear. So get a tame friend to claim to have been offered it to rent and get them to ask the council if the place is habitable or not. If they think you want to rent it out, their natural inclination will be to tell you that you can't, because its uninhabitable. You can then use that ruling to get it de-rated.

Nearly · May 31, 2020

smj1 · May 31, 2020

Can only make your property more valuable even in a dilapidated state so knocking it down doesn't make sense. Sell it or do it up and rent it/holiday let/childs or grandparent accommodation. Complete waste of a valuable asset knocking it down.

Smith31 · May 31, 2020

Hire a 13 ton digger €500 job done

biggles · May 31, 2020

I’ve been trying to get a reduction or removal of rates off a property that has 1/4 of its roof missing, no front door, no electricity connected, no bath kitchen and toilet and is knackered. I have to pay double rates because it is empty. I can’t find a way round it, I intend doing it up but don’t have the funds and can’t borrow against it because of its condition, now paying double rates makes it even hard to get the initial funds to make a start! Good luck

milkloss · May 31, 2020

Surely you have a lone person living in there such as relief staff. 25% discount on single occupancy

At the very least you could get “thrown out” by your mrs and live there yourself

Adeptandy · May 31, 2020

biggles said:
I’ve been trying to get a reduction or removal of rates off a property that has 1/4 of its roof missing, no front door, no electricity connected, no bath kitchen and toilet and is knackered. I have to pay double rates because it is empty. I can’t find a way round it, I intend doing it up but don’t have the funds and can’t borrow against it because of its condition, now paying double rates makes it even hard to get the initial funds to make a start! Good luck

I have the same problem, purchased a derelict house 6 years ago, but been to busy earning to finance the refurb and now this year got landed with 3x the rates, tried to claim single ocupancy but was refused as it wasn't in a fit state to be lived in

50ShedsofHay · May 31, 2020

Adeptandy said:
I have the same problem, purchased a derelict house 6 years ago, but been to busy earning to finance the refurb and now this year got landed with 3x the rates, tried to claim single ocupancy but was refused as it wasn't in a fit state to be lived in

I have the same situation with an old pre fab bungalow, unfit for habitation by any resonable assessment. Utterly mad.

Davy_g · May 31, 2020

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry there wasn’t all the info in my OP.
The old house in question is in the middle of my farm at one little used end of the yard.
My brother got a replacement for it a long time ago and a condition of the planning was the old dwelling was to be ‘made uninhabitable’. This was a little loose and nothing was ever done with it. Time has made it pretty inhabitable.
My sister has now built beside it under PPS21.
So I can’t see me ever either being allowed planning against it nor wanting to build on the site itself.
Sounds like a change of use might be the way to go for Agri storage. The chimneys will need removed soon before they fall in a storm anyway.

goodevans · May 31, 2020

It sounds like you got the rough end of the deal,

caveman · May 31, 2020

So who is responsible for not complying with the conditions of a previous planing decision?
Probably seemed a good idea to ignore the condition and hope to obtain development in the future?
The perils of taking a punt.

tullah · May 31, 2020

I think if the place has no loo, bathroom or kitchen then you can get £20k grant from council for doing it up. If been empty for two or more years then all bills materials and labour qualify for the 5% vat rate. Council will want their 20 back when you come to sell it or transfer to family member. Could give it to a younger family member first then let them apply to keep the £20k running longer.
just don't do anything in haste that might destroy chance of future planning permission.

jimbo69 · May 31, 2020

It used to be the case in Scotland that if the last occupier was a farm worker then you didn't have to pay council tax after they moved out. I'm not sure if that's still the case though, probably not.

WillH · May 31, 2020

biggles said:
I’ve been trying to get a reduction or removal of rates off a property that has 1/4 of its roof missing, no front door, no electricity connected, no bath kitchen and toilet and is knackered. I have to pay double rates because it is empty. I can’t find a way round it, I intend doing it up but don’t have the funds and can’t borrow against it because of its condition, now paying double rates makes it even hard to get the initial funds to make a start! Good luck

You'd need to argue that it is now truly derelict

Valuation Office Agency - Council Tax Manual

cti.voa.gov.uk

We looked at getting a listed building removed while we worked on it absolutely no chance

Rates on old house - want to stop paying

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page