Tm150 head rebuild

Farmer mk1 · Jun 19, 2020

Hi folks,
We had the head reconditioned at our local engineering firm over the new year when we was quiet before it had a chance to drop a valve as the tractor was on about 12800 hours and thought we was pushing our luck.
So we took it in and while it was in I cleaned the top of the pistons and block up to shine but after realised I shouldn’t of cleaned the tops of the pistons due to breaking the carbon seal, but was told it would build up again and be fine. I cleaned the pistons up with a sharp scraper like Stanley blade type of thing so wouldn’t of damaged the bores or piston tops with this. We had the injectors tested and found one abit faulty so had that done etc.
We then put the head back with all new gaskets round and it fired up back into life. Once it had ran a few hours we turned the pump up abit to give it 10hp for the baler and noticed it smoking abit of blue but mainly black smoke, so turned it back down and the smoke wasn’t as bad. Had it on the dyno and it was at 145 and when quarter turn on the pump was at 160.
Anyway since this it’s done 230 hours and is still smoking as bad as it did when we rebuilt it and I’m just wondering wha it could be as before the engine build it never smoked a bit unless under real heavy load and revs getting lower and lower. I’m abit concerned that something is wrong and it’s not doing it any favours. It starts instantly so the compression is fine and runs smooth but still black smokes and when on tick over has some blue coming out. Anyone any help as it never smoked and now it smokes a lot.
Also I’ve had the injectors out again to make sure it was ok.
Thanks and hope some light gets shone over it as it really bugs me why it smokes now.
regards
Mark

jd6820 · Jun 19, 2020

I'd pull the injectors myself, I'm betting one is not atomising correctly. How come you only replaced/repaired one? Usually change/refurbish the lot if I'm bothering to do one. Always do the pump as well if it's my own machine and recommend it on a customers machine. The same fuel has run through the pump that has gone through the injectors so they usually wear at a similar rate. Not familiar with TM's is that one turbocharged? If so check turbo play? Did you change valve stem seals? Finally, you could carry out a compression test to rule out ring issues.

Don't worry about the cleaning of the piston tops, you'll have made absolutely no difference.

TripleSix · Jun 19, 2020

Do a compression test.

Could be a failed head gasket between cylinders...

Farmer mk1 · Jun 19, 2020

Hi.
it had a new turbo on it about 2 years ago and I checked it when I rebuilt the engine and was perfect. Also we had all the injectors our and took them for testing and found only 1 to be at fault. I think you are right about checking the pump I’m just concerned about the blue smoke. I hope they did all the stem seals etc as I told them to a full refurb.

Farmer mk1 · Jun 19, 2020

Also when we put the injectors back in one injector went down again and and we had the injectors out for a second time and tested them and one was faulty with muck so they cleaned that out and was ok after. We did the valve clearance again once run for a few hours and the compression on the engine was really good and we could hardly turn the engine over with the ratchet on the crank.

Vincent · Jun 19, 2020

Check there is only one copper washer under each injector if there was two that injector will not atomise correctly.

Timbo · Jun 19, 2020

100% check the copper washers, and if that's in order, have the injectors refurbed / replaced by a reputable shop - blue smoke is often dribbling or poor spray pattern.

JohnD_ · Jun 19, 2020

Blue smoke is oil in combustion for whatever reason.

Black smoke is too much fuel and not enough air, injector not atomizing correctly, wrong injection timing or maybe bad compression.

db9go · Jun 19, 2020

What did they do to the head like new valve guides, stem seals, new valves, new seats, plane head, or was it a quick wash of and a quick grind in the valves

Farmer mk1 · Jun 19, 2020

It had all new parts in the head to make it like new again. Was about 550 to have it done and gasket kit at 140 quid. I’m nearly 100% sure that the copper washers are only single and not been doubled up. It’s got all it’s power but it smokes a lot now and it never smoked at all before. I scraped the piston tops off with a Stanley blade and wouldn’t of thought it would of done any damage to the bores if it got caught with the blade. Wouldn’t of thought any carbon which got round edge of piston would cause it to mark the bore either. It looks like a head off job again in winter time. Wouldn’t of thought the pump would be at fault?

Mur Huwcun · Jun 19, 2020

Have you tried it without air filter? Has a 150 got an intercooler? The intercooler has two short flexi connecting hoses that can split but if it’s been on dyno and ok then they should be ok. Has it got any form of missfire and diesel smoke on startup? Seen a few TMs do that.

anythinggood · Jun 19, 2020

Is it not possible to get those injectors in 180 degrees out???? maybe wrong but remember doing it on a TX engine which is pretty similar and it ran fine but smoked something silly.....turned them around (reckon the leak off pipe should be on the rocker cover side of the injectors) and it was completely different...just a thought!?

Mur Huwcun · Jun 19, 2020

anythinggood said:
Is it not possible to get those injectors in 180 degrees out???? maybe wrong but remember doing it on a TX engine which is pretty similar and it ran fine but smoked something silly.....turned them around (reckon the leak off pipe should be on the rocker cover side of the injectors) and it was completely different...just a thought!?

It’s possible on Internationals I know that. Just checked, NH leakoff on rocker side!!

biggles · Jun 19, 2020

I’ve seen them in wrong on an international and it had similar symptoms to yours, worth a check

Farmer mk1 · Jun 19, 2020

That could be it as I’ve got the leak off pipes on the outer side of the engine not the rocker side. I’ll go see the neighbours 150 in the morning and I’ll see what his is like and copy that as it’s never been in bits yet as only done about 7000 hours and ours is on to 13000 now.

Green&Steam · Jun 19, 2020

You say that the head was done,
Then when put back together you open the pump up
to get the power you wanted!
is that what is causing the black smoke ?

is the tractor now using any oil ? (blue smoke)

0

Mur Huwcun · Jun 19, 2020

I’ve just googled a few photos and they’re all on rocker side, would be a handy fix!! It will change the way the fuel is atomised into the combustion bowl of the piston as nozzle will only fit in one position.

Farmer mk1 · Jun 19, 2020

Yeah I’m hoping that this is the cure. When we took it apart I did the turbo side and manifold and the lad helping did the injector side etc. So he put it all back and I did the manifold but he might of got it the wrong way round so for the sake of an hours work I can soon turn them round and see what’s happening if it makes a difference.

Farmer mk1 · Jun 19, 2020

@Green&Steam the tractor isn’t using any oil. Perhaps a small amount but not noticeable really. It always used a little bit over the 300/400 service intervals we do on the engines. Perhaps used 1/2l of oil but no more and still the same now. I’m wondering wether the injector isn’t atomising right and it’s washing the bores down making the oil burn in the mix more.

Timbo · Jun 20, 2020

Get the injectors turned and go from there - also checking for one washer as Vincent said.

Tm150 head rebuild

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