Why is modern machinery so flipping unreliable?!

casemx 270 · Jun 30, 2020

Hi sorry to spoil the party , but it's not just electrical problems it's mechanical problems as well such as gearboxes and oil seals on engines .Then there are bad welding plus poor manufacturing and design issues it's across the board . Personally I don't think modern farm machinery is designed to withstand the rigours of modern farming and it has nothing to do with lack of maintaince or bad operators and lack of care or attention . When you look at machinery and tractors from years past they mostly were more reliable with a long life.

Steevo · Jun 30, 2020

casemx 270 said:
Hi sorry to spoil the party , but it's not just electrical problems it's mechanical problems as well such as gearboxes and oil seals on engines .Then there are bad welding plus poor manufacturing and design issues it's across the board . Personally I don't think modern farm machinery is designed to withstand the rigours of modern farming and it has nothing to do with lack of maintaince or bad operators and lack of care or attention . When you look at machinery and tractors from years past they mostly were more reliable with a long life.

Exactly.

In years gone by it was "How strong should we make it?"

Today it's a case of "How weak can we make it?"

Point was made well earlier regarding Fordson gearboxes still used today by tractor pullers due to how overengineered they were. Did anyone back then complain they were too expensive because they were built too well?

casemx 270 · Jun 30, 2020

We have two tractors in the 350 to 400 hp bracket under 5000 hours modern one 7 years old and one 5 years old different main stream manufacturers one is on is third engine and the other on its second transmission and the engine has been out to reseal numerous oil leaks .We have a British built self propelled sprayer 7year old 4000 ISH hours various rewelding done on it not just booms or a rough operator but rewelding done on axles one which snapped off in the field which could have tipped me over..To be fair very little electrical problems but poor design and building , probably built to please the accountants in these machinery companies.

Cowabunga · Jun 30, 2020

casemx 270 said:
Hi sorry to spoil the party , but it's not just electrical problems it's mechanical problems as well such as gearboxes and oil seals on engines .Then there are bad welding plus poor manufacturing and design issues it's across the board . Personally I don't think modern farm machinery is designed to withstand the rigours of modern farming and it has nothing to do with lack of maintaince or bad operators and lack of care or attention . When you look at machinery and tractors from years past they mostly were more reliable with a long life.

I disagree. Tractors today commonly work to over 10,000 hours and many to around 15,000 hours with not too many issues. Unlikely to reach there without some repairs but going back decades ago they would seldom reach 10,000 hours. They had far more regular repairs like clutches and PTO drives and bearings fail internally. Engines with oil pump failures. Front axles with regular joint failures and worn pivots and bushes which you seldom get at the same hours today. Perennial battery and starting problems. Pish poor radiators and water pumps. Internal hydraulic pump and pipe and mechanical linkages going out of adjustment or snapping. Poor rear end filtration causing issues.

Yes of course you get the occasional new model with failure issues that need sorting, but that has always been the case. Today's tractors generally give superb reliable service per unit of work done but there are exceptions.

Cowabunga · Jun 30, 2020

Steevo said:
Exactly.

In years gone by it was "How strong should we make it?"

Today it's a case of "How weak can we make it?"

Point was made well earlier regarding Fordson gearboxes still used today by tractor pullers due to how overengineered they were. Did anyone back then complain they were too expensive because they were built too well?

I fundamentally disagree. Harry Ferguson went out of his way to make a tractor as light as possible for its power output. Probably half the weight and strength of equivalent power tractors of the time. He built it just as strong as it needed to be but as light as possible within that stipulation. It and its successors are still plodding along today. The Major was way past it's sell-by date by 1964 when the new lighter more agile 1000 series was launched. Just as durable in the transmissions as the major before it and just as reliable with wet brakes and IPTO on the 4000 and 5000. They had their problems but so did the Major. Again the 4000 was way lighter than the Major but easily outperformed it in every way.
Today's tractors are far more powerful of course and I like to compare my baby MF5445 with the County 1174 of the 1980's. A massive and heavy tractor I thought at the time. However, my 5445 can literally run rings around it in every performance and reliability terms you care to think of, doing far more heavy work, faster, much faster, with no differential or drive gear problems, much faster and more reliable hydraulics, access on a different planet, ditto comfort, and with a fraction of the maintenance and repairs. Same power on the 5445 and more torque believe it or not. Far easier access to components for any repairs that might become necessary.

Different league! Rose coloured nostalgia or beer-glasses would have you believing otherwise. Reality is a tough companion.

casemx 270 · Jun 30, 2020

casemx 270 said:
We have two tractors in the 350 to 400 bracket under 5000 hours modern one 7 years old and one 5 years old different main stream manufacturers one is on is third engine a the other on its second transmission and the engine has been out to reseal numerous oil leaks .We have a British built self propelled sprayer 7year old 4000 ISH hours various rewelding done on it not just booms or a rough operator but rewelding done on axles one which snapped off in the field which could have tipped me over..To be fair very little electrical problems but poor design and building , probably built to please the accountants in these machinery companies.

Cowabunga said:
I disagree. Tractors today commonly work to over 10,000 hours and many to around 15,000 hours with not too many issues. Unlikely to reach there without some repairs but going back decades ago they would seldom reach 10,000 hours. They had far more regular repairs like clutches and PTO drives and bearings fail internally. Engines with oil pump failures. Front axles with regular joint failures and worn pivots and bushes which you seldom get at the same hours today. Perennial battery and starting problems. Pish poor radiators and water pumps. Internal hydraulic pump and pipe and mechanical linkages going out of adjustment or snapping. Poor rear end filtration causing issues.

Yes of course you get the occasional new model with failure issues that need sorting, but that has always been the case. Today's tractors generally give superb reliable service per unit of work done but there are exceptions.

Well everyone is welcome to their opinion but in the 35 odd years of farming I see more problems now with new kit and this is personal experience not pub talk.

Cowabunga · Jun 30, 2020

casemx 270 said:
Well everyone is welcome to their opinion but in the 35 odd years of farming I see more problems now with new kit and this is personal experience not pub talk.

You must be buying the wrong brand. I bet I know which.

Ormond · Jun 30, 2020

It's not just the electrics that are a problem.. NH 2015.....350hrs....new gearbox....3000hrs...new hydraulic pump....been weak for some time..... 3700hrs....bearing on the shaft that connects to the propshaft goes...taking the casting and prop shaft with it....bit of a know problem.... Very disappointed

glasshouse · Jun 30, 2020

Take thr new holland t series cross shafts
They are crap.
I used 6 and seven fur semi mounted ploughs behind tw and tm tractors for years with no probs, but my 7050 did two in two yeard

Cowabunga · Jun 30, 2020

glasshouse said:
Take thr new holland t series cross shafts
They are crap.
I used 6 and seven fur semi mounted ploughs behind tw and tm tractors for years with no probs, but my 7050 did two in two yeard

They made some engineering miscalculation with that lift shaft design, certainly. MF strengthened theirs on later 6480 with the optional heavy duty top cover and also fitted a stressed frame from the autohitch forwards to the flywheel housing, under the gearbox, to increase the payload capacity of the cast chassis. Some cross shafts seem to have snapped on the right side when using heavy 3.2m and wider moco’s apparently with the original cross shaft, which was no stronger than used on four cylinder 3000 series, but i never heard of one with a broken back.

glasshouse · Jul 1, 2020

Cowabunga said:
They made some engineering miscalculation with that lift shaft design, certainly. MF strengthened theirs on later 6480 with the optional heavy duty top cover and also fitted a stressed frame from the autohitch forwards to the flywheel housing, under the gearbox, to increase the payload capacity of the cast chassis. Some cross shafts seem to have snapped on the right side when using heavy 3.2m and wider moco’s apparently with the original cross shaft, which was no stronger than used on four cylinder 3000 series, but i never heard of one with a broken back.

The T series have no internal ram, that is the problem.
With external rams, the oil cannot help and goes to the easiest side, and all the twisting force When turning a semi mounted plough goes onto the cross shaft.
Even that wouldnt have mattered on a tm or tw, because it had a big splined cross shaft, but on the T series it Is too fine splined and just strips.

davieh3350 · Jul 1, 2020

My friend phoned me needing a freezer as his had died, so I told him to go take the wee one from my shed as I didn't need it any more. He got it home and it ran for a few days and then died. Was exactly the Same model and probably the same age as the one that had broken. We reckoned that it was a built in obsolescence from the designer so you'd have to go buy a new one
Which was a shame because they had both ran perfectly for 35 ish years.

How many of you regret sending your old basic tractor or land rover down the road rather than spending the money on a rebuild?

7610 super q · Jul 1, 2020

davieh3350 said:
My friend phoned me needing a freezer as his had died, so I told him to go take the wee one from my shed as I didn't need it any more. He got it home and it ran for a few days and then died. Was exactly the Same model and probably the same age as the one that had broken. We reckoned that it was a built in obsolescence from the designer so you'd have to go buy a new one
Which was a shame because they had both ran perfectly for 35 ish years.

How many of you regret sending your old basic tractor or land rover down the road rather than spending the money on a rebuild?

I regret selling them, as they've increased in value far more than money in the bank with f**k all interest rates. Should have kept them in the back of the shed as a pension plan.

casemx 270 · Jul 1, 2020

Cowabunga said:
You must be buying the wrong brand. I bet I know which.

I bet you don't it's not one brand it's brands
I know of 3 makes of tractors two with us and one parked in our yard but not ours with various problems keeping the spanner men busy ?

Cowabunga · Jul 1, 2020

casemx 270 said:
I bet you don't it's not one brand it's brands
I know of 3 makes of tractors two with us and one parked in our yard but not ours with various problems keeping the spanner men busy ?

Never saw a dealer's workshop yet, that sells any volume, without tractors in bits to some extent, especially new models. Some specific brands have become less reliable than they used to be, certainly. One just has teething issues that really shouldn't be there and the other has had issues building up over many years and indeed just isn't what it used to be or should be. Something has gone wrong with their design ethos but people still buy them and are loyal.
The exceptions, and there are always exceptions, do not alter the rule.

Farmer Roy · Jul 1, 2020

I like to see a dealers workshop busy

how else are their mechanics meant to gain any experience in new models ?

Suffolk Serf · Jul 1, 2020

I’ve still only got two out of four of my tractors and loaders working and I not very amused.
The make is Claas by the way.

Farmer Roy · Jul 1, 2020

glasshouse · Jul 1, 2020

Farmer Roy said:
View attachment 891408 View attachment 891409

Thats the king of tractors

Tubbylew · Jul 1, 2020

Steevo said:
Exactly.

In years gone by it was "How strong should we make it?"

Today it's a case of "How weak can we make it?"

Point was made well earlier regarding Fordson gearboxes still used today by tractor pullers due to how overengineered they were. Did anyone back then complain they were too expensive because they were built too well?

Value engineering, they've got it down to a fine art, it's massively wasteful, but it's the foundation of our economy. I can't seem to buy as good a chainsaw as i could of a few years ago so i've resorted to buying a box of bits, what a fek about, why does a chainsaw need an ecu?ffs

Why is modern machinery so flipping unreliable?!

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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