Churches and farming

yep we did Ely a few years ago, will suggest those others for future trips. As you say there's so many churches built on the back of wool, which I think adds to the argument that they should be rekindling their connection with agriculture in a way that meets the needs of today.
Here ya go... clickable maps of historic churches in East Anglia:

Cambridgeshire

Suffolk

Norfolk

Essex

And if you're ever back in Mildenhall, the museum just down the road from the church past the market cross is well worth a visit with a large Roman hoard of silver and the Anglo Saxon Lakenheath Warrior and his horse, as well as the usual social history stuff.

https://mildenhallmuseum.co.uk/

A short story by Roald Dahl about the finding of the Mildenhall Treasure, ploughed up in Jan 1942. Roald Dahl interviewed the ploughman and wrote the story to be as close to a factual account as possible and this chap has turned it into a short audiobook.

 
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DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The situation sounds just like here @DrWazzock . Although very few if the local farmers actually go to church, they are still the ones who "get stuff done" be it sending staff round to tidy the graves up, keep the ivy down etc. It's very much a "can't let it fall down on our watch" approach. Our local vicar is very good. But I imagine he needs as much help from the old God as the rest when it comes of diocesan bureaucracy.
The situation you describe is much the same across the county. The change for us in recent years is that “incomers” and “professionals” have taken over the PCC. These are folk on big pensions well used to spending other people’s money but not their own. They have no practical skills or ability so what financial reserves that were left were soon blown “ getting people in” with all the right elf’n and safety where once we would throw a ladder up the side and help the local builder make things good or fell dangerous trees ourselves and tidy them up for the firewood. Now they put things out to tender and get royally done over with very little to show for it. We have had all sorts of expensive surveys and reports commissioned just to state the obvious.
I really can’t see how I can help them at all. They have a mistrust of anything agricultural anyway and won’t listen to any advice. Given it up as a bad job and just mind my own business now. Still believe in God but not in the C of E. It’s a completely lost cause IMO.
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
The situation you describe is much the same across the county. The change for us in recent years is that “incomers” and “professionals” have taken over the PCC. These are folk on big pensions well used to spending other people’s money but not their own. They have no practical skills or ability so what financial reserves that were left were soon blown “ getting people in” with all the right elf’n and safety where once we would throw a ladder up the side and help the local builder make things good or fell dangerous trees ourselves and tidy them up for the firewood. Now they put things out to tender and get royally done over with very little to show for it. We have had all sorts of expensive surveys and reports commissioned just to state the obvious.
I really can’t see how I can help them at all. They have a mistrust of anything agricultural anyway and won’t listen to any advice. Given it up as a bad job and just mind my own business now. Still believe in God but not in the C of E. It’s a completely lost cause IMO.
^^^ this

The founder of our Company does all sorts for the Church and the Parish Council and in a caring but pragmatic way. In the end these incomers will kill off what they moved in to enjoy and likely the next generation won't be so open to help in the same way
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
On a previous occasion where our central heating boiler packed up, the Methodists across the road kindly offered us their upstairs bit for our meeting for worship. I suggested if we all bought a coffee we could just use a corner of Costa.

I've been / am involved in dealing with a variety of groups doing budgets and that sort of thing and the Church is simply the most difficult to deal with. Church buildings are largely tourist attractions primarily now. This is especially the case for Lincoln cathedral.

Similar to the post of church as propery developer, I struggle to see how church funds can be considered charitable when so much of it goes to fixing their own buildings rather than the intended feeding the hungry, sheltering the needy and attending to the spiritual aspects of the populace.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
As a way forward I think the C of E needs to divorce itself from the legacy of historic buildings it is left with and the responsibility for the upkeep of these buildings needs to come under an umbrella of a sort of national trust publicly funded body. Dare I say it could even be funded by ex Basic Payment money. At the end of the day there is a massive budgetary shortfall for the upkeep of these buildings and they are of national value architecturally and historically so their upkeep should be funded from general taxation. God and Christians don’t need these buildings , if truth be told. Their presence itself runs counter to Christian teachings. We should not be placing such importance on earthly material things but laying up treasure in heaven where moth nor rust doth corrupt.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Churches were built when the population was deeply christian, they survived Henry the 8th, the civil war etc, but since the arise of 'chapel', have slowly declined, till now, the situation is 'dire'. And, yet the happy clappies, are increasing, the alternative religions, seem to be 'secure' and growing, so why has C of E not thrived ? It would be interesting to see if if attendance increases after c19. Any dealings with church commisioners, that I have had, or been told about, have been very hard work, and outdated, and I think they are run as businesses for themselves ! A great pity, that a 'not keeping up' with modern times, leads to the deteriation of these great buildings, that have acted, like an anchor, for villages/towns, that doesn't change, for several hundred years
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Happy clappies - suppose it is a re-run of the rise of the non conformists in the 18&19C and all those little chapels scattered around the rural Lincolnshire countryside now converted too dwellings. Baptists Methodists et.
Our village chapel was converted to a house about 15 years ago. I have a pew here in Kenya. I only ever went in once for a harvest festival about 50 years ago . We also had a mission hall that was in our yard in the village that was knocked down 45 years ago. All thats left is my great grandfathers memorial stone that is a doorstep and we used the rubble to fill in a Dyke to make a roadway. We are probably going to hell.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
Our village chapel was converted to a house about 15 years ago. I have a pew here in Kenya. I only ever went in once for a harvest festival about 50 years ago . We also had a mission hall that was in our yard in the village that was knocked down 45 years ago. All thats left is my great grandfathers memorial stone that is a doorstep and we used the rubble to fill in a Dyke to make a roadway. We are probably going to hell.

I doubt you are going to hell! Just the opposite, booked a business class seat!

After all you destroyed the buildings of these upstart non-conformists who left the established Church of England, there again they left the Roman Catholic church.

All these churches / religions seem to offer a way to heaven - there version of heaven. So a bit like many different retailers stock the same branded products I reckon it doesn't matter which religion one signs upto the trip to heaven is pretty much guaranteed, provided of course one pays for that damn building on earth which is there to show other the way.

Just happens that Teslacoils happy clappies have broken the mould by using the local existing village hall as their 'church'. But someone will someone will come along to ensure the happy clappies have to stump up for a statement building at some stage - has always happened in the past.
 
My mother is a retired vicar.
For years I have watched how the C of E is run at a national and diocesan level with horror at the way money is wasted on pointless "advisors" at the expense of the parishes.
I very rarely go to church but chair a local event that raises money for local charities of which 40% of the profits pay the diocesan "quota" for five parishes. Occasionally I'm overcome with a bout of uncharacteristic generosity and give a reasonable amount of money to my village church when I take pity on the worthies having all those tiny coffee mornings and fetes.
I'm not sure what the answer or the future is but the C of E needs to take a long hard look at myself and answer some difficult questions. The leadership has been absolutely hopeless during Covid.
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
A great deal of rural church and parish community was eroded when clergy contracts were changed (iirc in the 1990s). Whilst there are many clergy who do go out of their way to work throughout their rural parish communities, there are plenty who, because they don't have to, just don't. Some of the younger ones are so badly trained for work in rural parishes, they seem not even to notice there are more parishioners than the ones who live in the urban bits where their tied accommodation is. The CofE is not a subscriber's club, or congregationalist clique, but that's the way they have gone since the changes - with massive dollops of retail business management methods within the church hierarchy taking the place of focus on parish community spirit and pastoral care.

Synod was asked to deal with outcomes of the decline in ordinations and an aging, often ailing clergy in the late C20th by other means than pruning clergy obligations because it was predicted that rural parishioners would be left out of the fold, and that church would be a contributor to damage to rural social cohesion. This has happened.

Returning to the OP, the parish churches locally would be unsuitable for food markets because they are kept at such ridiculously high temperatures. The local clergy seem to like it that way, and are too self-centred, and too flitting to understand the cost of fuel they run up, let alone the costs of burning fossil fuel.
 

Wigeon

Member
Arable Farmer
Which, I guess, is the crux of it.
I don't know how true this is, but someone told me that in many churches the pews weren't there originally but were put in later. Sell the pews off, return a church to its original layout, and you have a fantastic space to utilize.
We did this a couple of years ago. Pews are generally a Victorian invention, and knacker the usability of the space. Did feel a bit guilty though- put in by craftsmen and removed by a ham fisted yours truly with a broken bale spike and a hammer....

Has transformed the place though, and now means cakes, cafe church etc etc are possible. Left the ones at the front for the purists and everyone's happy.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Churches were built when the population was deeply christian, they survived Henry the 8th, the civil war etc, but since the arise of 'chapel', have slowly declined, till now, the situation is 'dire'. And, yet the happy clappies, are increasing, the alternative religions, seem to be 'secure' and growing, so why has C of E not thrived ? It would be interesting to see if if attendance increases after c19. Any dealings with church commisioners, that I have had, or been told about, have been very hard work, and outdated, and I think they are run as businesses for themselves ! A great pity, that a 'not keeping up' with modern times, leads to the deteriation of these great buildings, that have acted, like an anchor, for villages/towns, that doesn't change, for several hundred years
A large number of churches were govt funded 200 yr ago when the socialist napoleon had just been defeated and the economy was in tatters.
The country was in general uproar, due to starvation and poverty, and excessive taxes to pay for the war, not to mention the corn laws
Accept a shitty now for a better hereafter
My arse
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
Didnt Jesus make a whip and drive the stall holders and sellers out of the Temple !!!
Very good thread but as a regular churchgoer it saddens me that so many have turned away from the Church . The old churches are beautiful buildings and costly to maintain and without regular income the parishes cant afford the up keep
So come on folks throw a few quid in the plate and attend the odd service because you cant have it every way .
 

kfpben

Member
Location
Mid Hampshire
Our small village Church is doing quite well. Congregation averages 20 on a normal Sunday (population only about 150) flowing out the door at Christmas, Easter, Harvest festival. I got married in it a fortnight ago and it was an amazing experience.

I’m sure far fewer people would have the need of mental health services if just once a week they had a quiet moment, sang a hymn or two and thought about the bigger picture. It does help that we have a very nice, hard working vicar who understands rural life.

As to the upkeep of the building I have no idea, it was built c.1160 and it hasn’t fallen down yet!
 

Macsky

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Highland
Matthew 21 v.12-13

“Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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