our local chuches in this borough is majority of the silver variety as the main demographic.
Churches and farming
- Thread starter delilah
- Start date
our local chuches in this borough is majority of the silver variety as the main demographic.
Hilly
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders.
Aye communism is great when your the squire lol
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
It's such a pity we don't know where 'this borough' is, when it's not in your profile. Being in London though, transport between areas is fairly easy, so please don't let that be an excuse for neglecting your spiritual hunger. Plenty of worshipers in more rural parts of the country have no choice but to travel.
Pieces_of_Eight
Member
It pains me that small rural cofe churches in every county are falling into disrepair, yet the Church Commission owns land and property valued at £2 billion.
I was brought up as a high church Anglican in a large, sub-urban parish. The parish had 3 churches (now 2). The main church was a large, traditional town church.
When the whole Fairtrade scheme started there was a sale in the church once a month, encouraging people to buy these weird & wonderful food and drink products from the corners of the globe that would give the producers a good standard of living. No thought was given to the local farming community and nothing was done to help them get a fairer price for the local produce that hadn't traveled thousands of miles to get the customers.
I would still describe myself as a Christian, even though I'm not practicing.
I was brought up as a high church Anglican in a large, sub-urban parish. The parish had 3 churches (now 2). The main church was a large, traditional town church.
When the whole Fairtrade scheme started there was a sale in the church once a month, encouraging people to buy these weird & wonderful food and drink products from the corners of the globe that would give the producers a good standard of living. No thought was given to the local farming community and nothing was done to help them get a fairer price for the local produce that hadn't traveled thousands of miles to get the customers.
I would still describe myself as a Christian, even though I'm not practicing.
- Location
- LINCOLNSHIRE/KENYA
At one point Lincoln Cathedral actually had tills at the door. It really was offensive and I did actually use that quote.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
What can you say? I really don’t know and am as confused as anybody. It would take about £500k to get our church back to a safe state. A wall is leaning out and a huge crack has opened up. The roof timbers aren’t very good and really need replacing. Ceiling coming down in sections already. It was built as a sort of folly from green sandstone in the 1700’s. The lower half of the tower is the only Norman bit. So it’s been hacked around big style really. In about 1900 the squire paid for a reinforced concrete floor half way up the tower to stabilise its structure.
So it’s £500k which we haven’t got to get it back to 18 th century standard , cold, damp and costing a fortune to heat. The only way is to apply for grant funding but as Christians can we honestly say that’s a good use of public money when there are so many other much more needier causes in the country? It’s a difficult dilemma. The building has exceeded its design life just as the one before it on the same site did. They weren’t frightened to demolish and renovate in 1750. Maybe we shouldn’t be frightened to do the same now. Build a new village hall across the road with a decent car park and good access, toilets the works. And leave the church and the cemetery alone. The roof will go in eventually maybe 30 years from now. We can keep it tidy as nature reclaims it. Leave it as monument or hope maybe an antiquities trust takes it on.
On the other hand if every household in the village contributed £10k we would have enough money to renovate it. That’s the reality of it. Fundraisers are no good. We have often ended up spending £1000 and seen it walk off the event site just to raise £1000. What’s needed is cold hard cash and lots of it if people really value the church as an asset to the village. I reckon my household and a fair few others would contribute that much. That’s the honest straight answer really. All the rest is just pissing about and procrastinating.
But then there is the annual quota we have to pay to Lincoln, for vicars salaries, vicarages, and their pensions. We can hardly pay it now and not sure it’s going to be possible long term.
Really it comes down to what people as a community really value. If they want it to continue in its present form they are going to have to pay for it, big time.
Personally not really sure. I think I would contribute but in the light that it’s a worthy ancient monument and a focus for the community. Not sure it’s essential to the work of Christianity at all though. Don’t think it is actually.
So it’s £500k which we haven’t got to get it back to 18 th century standard , cold, damp and costing a fortune to heat. The only way is to apply for grant funding but as Christians can we honestly say that’s a good use of public money when there are so many other much more needier causes in the country? It’s a difficult dilemma. The building has exceeded its design life just as the one before it on the same site did. They weren’t frightened to demolish and renovate in 1750. Maybe we shouldn’t be frightened to do the same now. Build a new village hall across the road with a decent car park and good access, toilets the works. And leave the church and the cemetery alone. The roof will go in eventually maybe 30 years from now. We can keep it tidy as nature reclaims it. Leave it as monument or hope maybe an antiquities trust takes it on.
On the other hand if every household in the village contributed £10k we would have enough money to renovate it. That’s the reality of it. Fundraisers are no good. We have often ended up spending £1000 and seen it walk off the event site just to raise £1000. What’s needed is cold hard cash and lots of it if people really value the church as an asset to the village. I reckon my household and a fair few others would contribute that much. That’s the honest straight answer really. All the rest is just pissing about and procrastinating.
But then there is the annual quota we have to pay to Lincoln, for vicars salaries, vicarages, and their pensions. We can hardly pay it now and not sure it’s going to be possible long term.
Really it comes down to what people as a community really value. If they want it to continue in its present form they are going to have to pay for it, big time.
Personally not really sure. I think I would contribute but in the light that it’s a worthy ancient monument and a focus for the community. Not sure it’s essential to the work of Christianity at all though. Don’t think it is actually.
Lack of funding? https://www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2020-05/33295_CofE_AR19.pdf
The CoE sits on £8.7 BILLION.
That is all.
The CoE sits on £8.7 BILLION.
That is all.
- Location
- LINCOLNSHIRE/KENYA
A church is a place of worship not a place of business.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
From what we hear at this level you wouldn’t think they had two brass farthings to rub together. Money only ever leaves this parish.
And then they are actually the owners of the land and building and would sell it and take the proceeds if they were minded to, as they have elsewhere.
Does make you wonder who is being taken for a ride and has made me somewhat sceptical over the years.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
PCC pressurised to keep the building up.
At same time diocese ploughs all the money into the cathedral. And reduces numbers of priests.
At one point I worked out if the parishioners wished to use a "pay as you pray" system it would be £100 a pop.
They try very hard for you to keep these churches open but have no doubt that if they can sell them for building then none of that cash will return to the parish. Nor will it go towards "charitable works".
It's been alluded to but the established church has plenty of land and cash, yet how much affordable rental housing has it built? Would prefer the cash in the bank earning two percent.
At same time diocese ploughs all the money into the cathedral. And reduces numbers of priests.
At one point I worked out if the parishioners wished to use a "pay as you pray" system it would be £100 a pop.
They try very hard for you to keep these churches open but have no doubt that if they can sell them for building then none of that cash will return to the parish. Nor will it go towards "charitable works".
It's been alluded to but the established church has plenty of land and cash, yet how much affordable rental housing has it built? Would prefer the cash in the bank earning two percent.
Wellytrack
Member
Pretty much what i had thought along lines of myself.
Not a popular idea or opinion it seems however.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Nice idea but building is unsuitable and wouldn’t shift much produce. I used to take home grown veg in to Market Rasen while there was still an auction market there and it sold for pennies. Not a huge demand. Just about covered my fuel and a bag of chips.
If we used the £500 k needed to renovate the church to build a farm shop and community centre on the other side of the road we would do more good. A decent car park, toilets, good access all that but that would compete with private businesses who are doing the same locally so maybe not much point.
I wouldn’t actually sat that anybody in our village is seriously lacking anything really so things have gravitated to what is optimum. I’d say if the village as a whole really valued the church they’d pay to do it up, but really it is as it is for a reason. The squire used to take the lead and sort it out but now we have a committee that can’t seem to effect anything, mainly because they have no money.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I seem to remember somebody saying that the church commissioners’ profits went to pay clergy pensions, housing, other benefits etc. Nothing comes our way at any rate.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
My father in law submitted the biggest ever claim on record to the Methodist church insurers when their chapel mysteriously burnt down. It was a big one in the suburbs of a major city. Completely rebuilt with crèche, cafe and community centre.
That’s one way I suppose.
That’s one way I suppose.
SilliamWhale
Member
Bible is great for critical thinking, understanding philosophy, moral thought etc. All religions are great for teaching you how to evaluate things.
The other thing I always think is some highly intelligent people are religious. They can't all have a flaw of a lack of perception can they?
- Location
- LINCOLNSHIRE/KENYA
Churches were built with involuntary contributions from the people as such maybe they could be returned to the people.
I have found a couple of examples of where a church is hosting a food market, there will be others. I see no reason why a church can't be a place of business for 3 hrs a week and a place of worship the other 165 hrs.
This thread has provided plenty of evidence that their days as a place of worship alone are numbered.
If the pitch fees provide income towards the upkeep that must be a positive ?
- Location
- LINCOLNSHIRE/KENYA
That's my opinion. Use of church property for other purposes is not a problem but i don't like the idea of churches being used for business as such I'm not keen of the little shops that most large churches have inside. Churches are part of our history and as such need to be looked after one way or the other.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
The churches were built by the very wealthy and maintained by the very wealthy for centuries. When those people became poor or lost interest the buildings went into decline. The local population has other priorities really, like keeping a roof over their own heads.
An old bloke in our village always used to say Lincoln Cathedral was built for the glory of man, not God.
There just aren’t enough wealthy individuals about nowadays with the interest in these buildings. So their upkeep will need to come from general taxation or similar subscription.
It’s quite ironic really. For two thousands we could afford to keep the church buildings going but now we are supposed to be as well as we have ever been such maintenance is considered unaffordable. Or maybe with the wealth being more spread out now, there just isn’t the focus that there was.
An old bloke in our village always used to say Lincoln Cathedral was built for the glory of man, not God.
There just aren’t enough wealthy individuals about nowadays with the interest in these buildings. So their upkeep will need to come from general taxation or similar subscription.
It’s quite ironic really. For two thousands we could afford to keep the church buildings going but now we are supposed to be as well as we have ever been such maintenance is considered unaffordable. Or maybe with the wealth being more spread out now, there just isn’t the focus that there was.