Churches and farming

primmiemoo · Aug 3, 2020

Not that long ago, there would have been church property where community events could, and often did, take place. Rather a lot of Glebe has been sold off - some was for affordable housing, it hasn't all been to highest bidder - but where did the Vicarages with large gardens go? The clergy housing stock was sold off to the highest bidder.
Rural parishes were asset stripped.

tje · Aug 3, 2020

How so ?

SilliamWhale said:
I like Douglas Murray. He does scare me a bit sometimes though..

Macsky · Aug 3, 2020

delilah said:
Jesus Christ. You lot can't half moan. Anyone got any thoughts on whether the suggestion in the OP would be relevant to their parish church ? Or, heaven forbid, anyone actually tempted to give it a go ?

Targeted use of blasphemy there to offend anyone that might think that churches should be used for their intended purpose?

Bury the Trash · Aug 3, 2020

primmiemoo said:
Not that long ago, there would have been church property where community events could, and often did, take place. Rather a lot of Glebe has been sold off - some was for affordable housing, it hasn't all been to highest bidder - but where did the Vicarages with large gardens go? The clergy housing stock was sold off to the highest bidder.
Rural parishes were asset stripped.

yes quite a lot building plots/houses sold off /cashed in over the years but still plenty of land and property owned./retained
possibly the op's idea is not so appropriate to our type 'grand architecture'churches and parishes ..but more relivant to up higher density or near urban / sub urban pop. areas.
mind you anything that sustains or rekindle s community is a good practically useful thing for all. farmers market enthusiasm come s and goes mind you...

delilah · Aug 3, 2020

Macsky said:
Targeted use of blasphemy there to offend anyone that might think that churches should be used for their intended purpose?

Not especially, just trying to shock the thread back on track. The OP was about food not religion, hence it was posted in Agricultural Matters rather than Off Topic. If there was a thread about religion in Off Topic I wouldn't dream of posting blasphemy.

Bury the Trash · Aug 3, 2020

Macsky said:
Targeted use of blasphemy there to offend anyone that might think that churches should be used for their intended purpose?

The point of this thread was not, i'm sure to kick off yet another miserable unappealing boring backward looking ......religions / good religions bad battle .

DRC · Aug 3, 2020

Anfield and old Trafford are the modern day churches .

delilah · Aug 3, 2020

Bury the Trash said:
mind you anything that sustains or rekindle s community is a good practically useful thing for all. farmers market enthusiasm come s and goes mind you...

Absolutely. I was quite careful to refer to 'food markets' rather than 'farmers markets'. I founded our villages farmers market 21 yrs ago and have charted their ups and downs since. Farmers markets in their truest form are now at saturation point, there's only so many primary producers able to stand behind a market stall. 'Food markets' covers anything and everything that is food.

No-one building a church intended it to be a climate change proof building, it was to the glory of God. Yet these buildings are now ideally suited to a more tempestuous climate. Divine intervention ?

primmiemoo · Aug 3, 2020

delilah said:
Not especially, just trying to shock the thread back on track. The OP was about food not religion, hence it was posted in Agricultural Matters rather than Off Topic. If there was a thread about religion in Off Topic I wouldn't dream of posting blasphemy.

It's, um, annoying when the deity's name is used as a swear word, though, eh?

Bury the Trash · Aug 3, 2020

delilah said:
Absolutely. I was quite careful to refer to 'food markets' rather than 'farmers markets'. I founded our villages farmers market 21 yrs ago and have charted their ups and downs since. Farmers markets in their truest form are now at saturation point, there's only so many primary producers able to stand behind a market stall. 'Food markets' covers anything and everything that is food.

No-one building a church intended it to be a climate change proof building, it was to the glory of God. Yet these buildings are now ideally suited to a more tempestuous climate. Divine intervention ?

yep. could be.

..actually they are already used in a commercially albeit in a more subtle way , tourism or a type of,ie as per your visit .

Macsky · Aug 3, 2020

delilah said:
Not especially, just trying to shock the thread back on track. The OP was about food not religion, hence it was posted in Agricultural Matters rather than Off Topic. If there was a thread about religion in Off Topic I wouldn't dream of posting blasphemy.

Bury the Trash said:
The point of this thread was not, i'm sure to kick off yet another miserable unappealing boring backward looking ......religions / good religions bad battle .

Very hard question to ask without religious points of view being aired! How can you have a non religious discussion about the use of churches??

Sharpy · Aug 3, 2020

Macsky said:
Very hard question to ask without religious points of view being aired! How can you have a non religious discussion about the use of churches??

Is the church not meant to be the people who worship in a certain way (eg the Church of England, the Church of Scotland, the Catholic Church) , whereas this discussion is about the buildings used by them?

Wigeon · Aug 3, 2020

DrWazzock said:
I seem to remember somebody saying that the church commissioners’ profits went to pay clergy pensions, housing, other benefits etc. Nothing comes our way at any rate.

They may sit on a largish pot, but I recall from a former life that the church commissioners were a byword for idiocy when it came to managing their commercial property portfolio in the early 90s. Fire sales in a flap of cassocks in a plunging market only to then buy the same assets back once the market had well and truly bounced back.
In a previous life to that I used to value various portfolios of CC farms once a year. Quite enjoyed the days out. The law of averages would suggest there must be a few tenants on here.

Macsky · Aug 3, 2020

Sharpy said:
Is the church not meant to be the people who worship in a certain way (eg the Church of England, the Church of Scotland, the Catholic Church) , whereas this discussion is about the buildings used by them?

The true church is indeed made up of people, but is invisible, only God knows for sure who is and who is not a true believer, and these will come from every nation and tongue and creed and colour. The plethora of different denominations and sects and buildings are, as I see it, an unfortunate side effect of a combination of the nature of man and the liberty of The Reformation.

The original Christian church would have had no buildings and would have been meeting in private houses and public spaces where possible, but this isn’t to say that that’s the way it should be, they never had much choice!

I have been attending worship in a council owned building for 20 years, it does the job, but really isn’t ideal. It costs a lot of money to hire and there’s a lot of effort and rush involved in setting up seating for up to 170 people on a Saturday and clearing up after the evening service on the sabbath.

With declining attendance nationwide it will be increasingly hard to maintain ageing buildings, difficult decisions will be encountered in many places, but I do think that a church building should still be a rather sacred place, Jesus obviously thought so, and where he leads, I try to follow.

Cowcorn · Aug 3, 2020

Didnt Jesus make a whip and drive the stall holders and sellers out of the Temple !!!
Very good thread but as a regular churchgoer it saddens me that so many have turned away from the Church . The old churches are beautiful buildings and costly to maintain and m

silverfox said:
Anfield and old Trafford are the modern day churches .

Along with shopping malls unfortunately !!!

DrWazzock · Aug 3, 2020

Cowcorn said:
Didnt Jesus make a whip and drive the stall holders and sellers out of the Temple !!!
Very good thread but as a regular churchgoer it saddens me that so many have turned away from the Church . The old churches are beautiful buildings and costly to maintain and m

Along with shopping malls unfortunately !!!

I don’t think we have abandoned the church here. I think we will rally round when it comes down to it. But for that to happen some folk just need a wee bit longer in the wilderness.

probably include myself in that.

Hilly · Aug 3, 2020

Affluence and education makes people become less religious imo .

steveR · Aug 3, 2020

DrWazzock said:
My father in law submitted the biggest ever claim on record to the Methodist church insurers when their chapel mysteriously burnt down. It was a big one in the suburbs of a major city. Completely rebuilt with crèche, cafe and community centre.
That’s one way I suppose.

Ah yes, the "vacant pub" redevelopment schemes.....

Cowcorn · Aug 3, 2020

In Ireland the practice of paying " offerings " at Christmas and Easter is still strong especially in rural areas . The Farming community have by and large remained faithful to their church whether Catholic or Church of Ireland and while money may not be abundant the seem to cope . Im a Catholic but several of my in laws are of other Christian denominations and while my main donation is to my own church i also pay a contibution to the local Church of Ireland building fund as its a beautiful building and has a hall attached that is used by the whole community .
The local Town has two excellent Convent schools for girls places are much sought after and the schools lack for nothing . The wily old Nuns are experts at extracting funds from the reluctant and getting building work done at cost .
Maybe the Nuns would make better guardians of church finances ??

Wellytrack · Aug 3, 2020

Schools and hospitals are built of their time using the materials and methods available to them the same as as any other building of their time.

Many now are no longer fit for purpose and are being taken down and replaced - so too social housing of the 50/60’s is no longer deemed acceptable.

I could take a drive out and probably point to a dozen or so sites of former schools all closed in the countryside within the previous 30 years in my local area.
Not exactly the same scenario as dwindling parishioners vs larger classrooms but the point is times change, technology advances, materials and buildings improve.

Although I am not a member of any church I recognise the symbolism and rhythm of the farming year and the close ties that some have to the church. I had just thought the time has came for some pragmatism in regards to the unsustainable upkeep of old buildings.

Jesus should be ok with it too.

“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Matt. 18:19–20.

Churches and farming

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