How many sheep ?

pgk · Aug 13, 2020

C400 ewes and 150 ewe lambs run part time with son, we both work full time, ability to increase numbers began when we moved from lleyns to shedders. Lack of worry as to shearing and fly strike was the key. Son has increased woollies to about 100 but they are terminals so do job. Even then we are trying to breed shedding terminals. We have land 20 miles from one end to other with blocks in between. Furthest away has just dry shedders now, landlords and fil do the daily checks, we only go over every couple of weeks or if issue identified. Fencing and water sorted jobs a good un.

edn · Aug 13, 2020

In answer to how many hours query it really does depend on the season/jobs etc. Over lambing there's a few hours to put in with checks, tagging etc. Electric fencing takes the time especially when ewes are on forage crops/turnips and moving regularly. I suppose I'd average it out at 6 hours a week- I have deliberately put the sheep on land that is either a mile or so from work or on the way between work and home. More acres doesn't make sense if you're having to drive out of your way!

Checking- one of the key things with all land I try and take on is that somebody keeps an eye on the sheep and lets me know if there's any problems- this is invaluable when doing it part time.

The key thing is just enjoy it- yes it's got to make financial sense and there will always be times of stress with sheep farming but if you're doing it part time you don't want to be tearing your hair out over something on top of having a job.

Sandpit Farm · Aug 13, 2020

Genuinely I found it difficult and ended up resenting it a bit. I made no profit and fell out of love with it as I was always chasing my tail at times where I needed to relax. The challenge you will have is travellers stealing batteries from energiser units, sheep getting out or tangling wire on a day that you need to be somewhere else and being forced to do jobs at times when you are free rather than choosing the time where you have the inclination or motivation to do them. Have a real serious think about what it will do for you and consider whether it is worth it.

Having 80 ewes get out onto the Fosse Way on a day that I was scanning sheep in East Sussex was the straw that broke the camel's back. It took me 5 hrs in traffic to get back, my landlord wasn't happy and I was incredibly stressed thinking of the accident that was waiting to happen.

There is sometimes a pressure to build a huge flock so you can talk in big numbers but the profit is often the same as having no sheep- unless you are shrewd and can keep costs to a minimum by maximising grass usage and minimising labour - even then the responsibility and scale needed can far outweigh the benefit. There is nothing wrong with having a stock fenced paddock of 20-30 sheep and just enjoying it.

Sandpit Farm · Aug 13, 2020

Sandpit Farm said:
Genuinely I found it difficult and ended up resenting it a bit. I made no profit and fell out of love with it as I was always chasing my tail at times where I needed to relax. The challenge you will have is travellers stealing batteries from energiser units, sheep getting out or tangling wire on a day that you need to be somewhere else and being forced to do jobs at times when you are free rather than choosing the time where you have the inclination or motivation to do them. Have a real serious think about what it will do for you and consider whether it is worth it.

Having 80 ewes get out onto the Fosse Way on a day that I was scanning sheep in East Sussex was the straw that broke the camel's back. It took me 5 hrs in traffic to get back, my landlord wasn't happy and I was incredibly stressed thinking of the accident that was waiting to happen.

There is sometimes a pressure to build a huge flock so you can talk in big numbers but the profit is often the same as having no sheep- unless you are shrewd and can keep costs to a minimum by maximising grass usage and minimising labour - even then the responsibility and scale needed can far outweigh the benefit. There is nothing wrong with having a stock fenced paddock of 20-30 sheep and just enjoying it.

I had 250 ewes in the end

DrWazzock · Aug 13, 2020

Fastest way to insanity in my view.

gwi1890 · Aug 13, 2020

irish dom said:
2000 part time? Would want to be a ring fenced block. No such thing over here unless it's mountain. If I get to 2000 I think I would be putting my all into them. Would likely never leave the road between bits of land. If you have to work elsewhere to make a living whilst running 2000 ewes then what are you after? Big tax bill or ego boost?

I farmer I know does it all on on 55acres, 50 ewes and a calf to beef system with roughly 20 going Evrey 12 months, he has a dog pickup a fork and wheelbarrow!
don’t think I could survive like that but goes to
Show if you live to your means anything is possibe I suppose.

DrWazzock · Aug 13, 2020

So yesterday morning a tup in the ditch, pushed his way under a fence. Teleporter and sling made from builders ton bag to get him out. An hour clatting about. Good job we don't have other full time job. He ran off up the field OK. Good job done we thought. This morning he's dead. £400 gone in a day.
Electric fences are just problems waiting to happen unless strimmed and checked meticulously.
We have 250 ewes here ring fenced and well fenced with central handling facilities. They always need something doing. Fly spray, wormer, vaccines, get them in twice a week, once for weighing and grading and then for loading. Lorry can be +-2 hours arrival time. Fit in with 45 hours a week job - no chance.

Woolless · Aug 13, 2020

@Benn I have run 300 plus ewes at home in a ring fence. I work 30 hours per week over three days off farm. Sounds like you will have a bit of help with the routine checking etc which will make life easier. But even with Exlanas or Easycares, there are routine tasks to perform. Plus there is the admin side, although if you are self-employed you should be up to speed on a lot of that.

I can sympathise that you don't like your job. But do your sums and see how many sheep you would need to run for a full-time wage. It may be that 50 ewes as a hobby is the way to go, or you may find yourself running round trying to build up numbers to a level which may never be achievable in order to give up work. 45 hours plus significant numbers of sheep sounds a lot to me, unless you are young and very energetic. Everyone needs family time and time to recharge their batteries.

Is there something you could change regarding your job which would make it more enjoyable? A change of direction?

Benn · Aug 13, 2020

Sandpit Farm said:
Genuinely I found it difficult and ended up resenting it a bit. I made no profit and fell out of love with it as I was always chasing my tail at times where I needed to relax. The challenge you will have is travellers stealing batteries from energiser units, sheep getting out or tangling wire on a day that you need to be somewhere else and being forced to do jobs at times when you are free rather than choosing the time where you have the inclination or motivation to do them. Have a real serious think about what it will do for you and consider whether it is worth it.

Having 80 ewes get out onto the Fosse Way on a day that I was scanning sheep in East Sussex was the straw that broke the camel's back. It took me 5 hrs in traffic to get back, my landlord wasn't happy and I was incredibly stressed thinking of the accident that was waiting to happen.

There is sometimes a pressure to build a huge flock so you can talk in big numbers but the profit is often the same as having no sheep- unless you are shrewd and can keep costs to a minimum by maximising grass usage and minimising labour - even then the responsibility and scale needed can far outweigh the benefit. There is nothing wrong with having a stock fenced paddock of 20-30 sheep and just enjoying it.

i hear what your saying,
I could go up to 50-60 at home and it wouldnt affect my work.
Majority of free grazing land Is close by within maximum 5 min in car ,
could try out 1 plot land and go from there.

edn · Aug 13, 2020

There was a point at which I realised that it wasn't about rushing to hit 100 ewes, 200 ewes etc. That's no good if it's stressing you out and the ewes aren't doing the job. I enjoy having the numbers at a comfortable level and making the investments to see the stock improve and make my life easier.
On spreadsheets and from behind a computer everything looks easy - 500 ewes, no sweat, but in reality as a couple of posters have put it can all go the wrong way rapidly and then you're in the mire particularly when it isn't your full time job.

Benn · Aug 13, 2020

Woolless said:
@Benn I have run 300 plus ewes at home in a ring fence. I work 30 hours per week over three days off farm. Sounds like you will have a bit of help with the routine checking etc which will make life easier. But even with Exlanas or Easycares, there are routine tasks to perform. Plus there is the admin side, although if you are self-employed you should be up to speed on a lot of that.

I can sympathise that you don't like your job. But do your sums and see how many sheep you would need to run for a full-time wage. It may be that 50 ewes as a hobby is the way to go, or you may find yourself running round trying to build up numbers to a level which may never be achievable in order to give up work. 45 hours plus significant numbers of sheep sounds a lot to me, unless you are young and very energetic. Everyone needs family time and time to recharge their batteries.

Is there something you could change regarding your job which would make it more enjoyable? A change of direction?

I definitely wouldnt give up my full time job as its finally clicked these last few years (Taken 10 Years) and its good pay which i wont earn elsewhere,
I dont mind the Extra work With sheep as im not person who can sit in home ,Saying that
having Majority of sundays off is nice,for me and family.

im a joiner and only focus on doors and windows now as im set up for it,
probably a new workshop and working with someone else in the workshop would Improve things,but still obly do it to earn money.

I know the sheep would only ever be part time and at minite there just a hobby,i just like working with them and take me away from the workshop.
I could get upto 50-60 at home And it would effect work,
Maybe then try one of the plots of land close by (within 5 mins)

Guess its all about finding that happy family/work/sheep balances ,which Really only can be found by upping sheep numbers slowly.

Guiggs · Aug 13, 2020

That extra land is on your doorstep, take it!
Don't over stock it, keep a placid shedding ewe to keep the workload down a bit,
Be prepared to have to drop what you are doing and rush off to fix a problem, and
Ideally get it stock fenced rather than electric for peace of mind!
You'll be fine.

S J H · Aug 13, 2020

DrWazzock said:
So yesterday morning a tup in the ditch, pushed his way under a fence. Teleporter and sling made from builders ton bag to get him out. An hour clatting about. Good job we don't have other full time job. He ran off up the field OK. Good job done we thought. This morning he's dead. £400 gone in a day.
Electric fences are just problems waiting to happen unless strimmed and checked meticulously.
We have 250 ewes here ring fenced and well fenced with central handling facilities. They always need something doing. Fly spray, wormer, vaccines, get them in twice a week, once for weighing and grading and then for loading. Lorry can be +-2 hours arrival time. Fit in with 45 hours a week job - no chance.

Sorry but you lost the tup anyway, so you might has well of gone to work, and earned some money.

Sandpit Farm · Aug 13, 2020

Benn said:
I definitely wouldnt give up my full time job as its finally clicked these last few years (Taken 10 Years) and its good pay which i wont earn elsewhere,
I dont mind the Extra work With sheep as im not person who can sit in home ,Saying that
having Majority of sundays off is nice,for me and family.

im a joiner and only focus on doors and windows now as im set up for it,
probably a new workshop and working with someone else in the workshop would Improve things,but still obly do it to earn money.

I know the sheep would only ever be part time and at minite there just a hobby,i just like working with them and take me away from the workshop.
I could get upto 50-60 at home And it would effect work,
Maybe then try one of the plots of land close by (within 5 mins)

Guess its all about finding that happy family/work/sheep balances ,which Really only can be found by upping sheep numbers slowly.

It is hard not to take land when it is on your doorstep. I guess my point was about challenging yourself about what your goal is. You probably are choosing the right type of ewe as she should be low labour.

I just think we are conditioned to romantic notions of working the land from a very young age without always knowing the other options for finances. I was riding around on a quad with family and deciding this was the life I wanted without having to pay any of the bills. At a young age, you can do some sums and see that you could make an ok return but your financial needs increase as you get older and by the time this happens, you can be committed to a life with a moderate (at best) return. The penny dropped for me later in life where I told myself I enjoyed keeping sheep and tricked myself into thinking I was making money but really wasn't as there was no time to stand and watch them enjoying some new grazing or see them sold in markets etc. You can achieve your enjoyment from running a hobby flock/herd and earning your money elsewhere - you are still farming.

Norfolk Hill Farmer · Aug 13, 2020

S J H said:
Sorry but you lost the tup anyway, so you might has well of gone to work, and earned some money.

What and left the tup in the dyke

toquark · Aug 13, 2020

I work 40-50 hours per week and my wife works similar hours but we only run around 60 ewes at home, so very much a hobby which pays for itself (in theory). At the moment overhead and commitment is fairly light and we very much enjoy it and I get a real kick from watching the stock improve over time. I have no real desire to expand, mainly because the work to reward ratio is pretty guff.

Norfolk Hill Farmer · Aug 13, 2020

Benn do the rest of your family get any enjoyment from the sheep ?
Will increasing the number of sheep increase the sum total of happiness?
Probably won't do much to increase the sum total of money.
I'm as happy messing around with sheep ,with the rest of the family ,as I am on the beach with them. I tell myself the rest of the family have the same opinion

I'm a lot less happy when they've all gone out somewhere nice and I'm left strimming an electric fence for the fourth time in 8 weeks.

neilo · Aug 13, 2020

DrWazzock said:
We have 250 ewes here ring fenced and well fenced with central handling facilities. They always need something doing. Fly spray, wormer, vaccines, get them in twice a week, once for weighing and grading and then for loading. Lorry can be +-2 hours arrival time. Fit in with 45 hours a week job - no chance.

To be fair a lot of those jobs could be slimmed down or avoided, if you wanted to. Wean earlier and only draw after weaning, leaving you only one handling for drawing lambs. Fly pou-on need only be a once in a season job, or done away with with shedders (as the OP has). Vaccinations are hardly a frequent job either.

Greythundercloudys · Aug 13, 2020

If lmbs say this price you can give up your day job.

S J H · Aug 13, 2020

Norfolk Hill Farmer said:
What and left the tup in the dyke

Well it died anyway so I expect the damage was done. If he’d have been at work he wouldn’t have known about it.

How many sheep ?

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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