Wilder Britain ...

Ukjay said:

Apologies, I wasn't aware I had to.

However, I would say that due to the disparity of everyones own business models, along with the differences of accounting costs, plus reading certain debates on here about what is considered real costs or not, and other sources, it goes without saying that there is a high percentage of businesses that are obviously returning a significant loss and basically are running with a non viable platform for the long term without the benefit of payment schemes unless they can find a way to either reduce significantley their CoP to a far lower level, which is the same as with any other industry - whereby if your input costs are already too high and they keep going north vs your competition, then you will eventually hit the wall and have nowhere to go, unless you can potentially find a way to diversify somewhere / somehow.

To this end, the data I can see only reflects a small percentage of farms inputting data and shows a sector of the industry averaging out at somewhere around 94 - 95% base cost recovered covered in a prior year collectively, which has potentially seen numbers rise to > 100% mark for a time recently. These numbers are obviously being helped through the inclusion of the better performing businesses with the obvious lower CoP etc and more favourable prices vs the other end of the scale.

Putting the line in the sand on the lower performing busines models, it looks to show they have been running around the mid 70's of costs recovered with the returns gained if the information submitted is an accurate refelction on true costs. So extrapolating this further, I would hazard a guess that the industry has a breakdown that shows circa 60% collectively either losing significant amounts of money, or just manafing to break even, and I would propose that some of the lower performing businesses may be be reflecting circa 50% or lower, in ability to cover the real CoP unfortunately.

So I stand by what I said, whereby that I doubt the real issue to the industry is going to be the releasing of a BoP into the area in question, due to the existing issues already present.
I fear the downfall to certain areas within the industry will be more aligned with the potential loss of or a reduction of payment schemes into the industry if that ever happens, real world Brexit Impacts and peoples perceptions of the industry and how they value local produce, and sadly the inabilty of the businesses struggling being able to make the necessary changes needed.

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unlacedgecko said:

Yes. I'd love to have livestock guardian dogs all over the place.

Not entirely sure how this correlates to improved public access mind you. I suppose the people I caught chasing my lambs this spring (3 separate occasions!) might reconsider if faced with 90lbs of teeth fur and bad attitude.

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Humble Village Farmer said:

I presume you're referring to badgers being overprotected and overpopulated? What do you think would happen to the badger population with wolves around? By the way I agree they are overpopulated and over protected (by man)

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ollie989898 said:

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that wolves routinely predate badgers? You realise, of course, that wolves (and lynx and wild boar which you fellows also seem very keen to release into the wild) all get TB right?

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neilo said:

Trained to the command ‘KILL’?

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unlacedgecko said:

Absolutely fück all.

Wolves aren't going to bother a subterranean dwelling mesopredator.

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7610 super q said:

Hmmmm......You do have to wonder why we pay a mortgage and buy land. Between dog walkers / ramblers/ re wilders/ meddling do gooders, we are losing control over how we use our own land to make a living.
In the present climate, I'd be wary of buying any more land. Someone ( NFU ) ought to mount a campaign to educate the public that farmland is privately owned, and a factory floor.

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Swarfmonkey said:

Are “most people” really that ignorant?

If you had even half an idea of who goes shooting it would boil your brain. I look back at the syndicate I used to belong to. We had everyone from a senior NHS doctor to an HGV fitter amongst our number.

I can assure you that none of us had titles and none of us were “toffs”.

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Bald Rick said:

Agreeing with you. If I was an upland farmer, I would be looking at anything to boost my income esp due to the uncertainty of light lambs post Brexit

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ollie989898 said:

Farmers are duty bound to protect their stock from pests, disease, hunger and predation. This has been the case for as long as man has kept stock.

The UK countryside is a very very different place to how it was when these eagles, lynx and wolves and godknowswhat were roaming. You can't reintroduce these things thinking it is a simple round peg: round hole deal. It's nonsense.

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Ffermer Bach said:

I think if we want to do something for wildlife and the environment, the first thing should be building "green bridges" over roads etc to link habitats and stop bulldozing ancient woodland and farm land for that matter for building houses etc, then encourage more hedge planting, encourage regenerative farming methods, then do something about the number of birds killed by domestic cats, badgers next and finally when we have done all that, think about extinct species (although I think actually we are too populated really to support them), but that should be the last thing, not the first. I have read a lot about the countryside restoration trust, but supporting things like that are not "sexy" in the way reintroducing Lynx or protecting "cuddly" badgers is.

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Ffermer Bach said:

I think if we want to do something for wildlife and the environment, the first thing should be building "green bridges" over roads etc to link habitats and stop bulldozing ancient woodland and farm land for that matter for building houses etc, then encourage more hedge planting, encourage regenerative farming methods, then do something about the number of birds killed by domestic cats, badgers next and finally when we have done all that, think about extinct species (although I think actually we are too populated really to support them), but that should be the last thing, not the first. I have read a lot about the countryside restoration trust, but supporting things like that are not "sexy" in the way reintroducing Lynx or protecting "cuddly" badgers is.

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neilo said:

What do you mean by ‘your own land’? I think you’ll find that nobody owns land, you merely get to steward it for the general populous.

Isn’t that right brother @GeorgeC1 ? Come the revolution, you ploughmen will be the first against the wall.

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GeorgeC1 said:

I am compassionate, but it is also Nature, there's a difference between a wolf eating a lamb to survive then a human shooting a lamb for jollies.

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Bald Rick said:

The biggest release that has gone spectacularly wrong was the mink which started to occur in Britain from 1930s onward following the odd escape from mink farms ............ bye, bye the Water Vole and pretty much anything else it can get its claws and teeth in to
Then activists started to take an interest in stopping the fur trade from the early 90s

Animal rights activists are thought to be behind the release of up to 8,000 mink from a farm at Onneley in north Staffordshire.
Mink farmer Len Kelsall, 60, has slammed those responsible as "terrorists", saying that he was "utterly devastated" by the release which occurred shortly before 6am.
Sept 1998

Lot were killed on the roads but it was estimated that several hundred managed to escape in to the wilds

The water vole is Britain's fastest declining mammal, disappearing from 70% of known sites in only seven years between national surveys in the late 1980s and early 1990s. In 1998 there were estimated to be only 875,000 individuals.

In pre-Roman times, the water vole was actually Britain's commonest small mammal. It has been estimated that in the late Iron Age there were 6.7 billion water voles in Britain

Bugger it ...... might as well have wolves roaming around too

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