No worms in DD land

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I know we have far fewer worms here that we did in the 90s... I do not know if this is cultural, rotational, OM decline or due to chemicals or fertilisers but we need to reverse the decline!
Probably a mixture of everything. Many purely arable soils are knackered and need more and more inputs to get the same yields as 20 years ago.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
How do you go about reversing this?
I think regenerative type farming methods, or lots of muck if you can get it or preferably both. We are trying to make them better with chicken muck, no till, cover/catch/companion crops CTF etc and reducing the amount of fert and Chem we use but it’s a long term thing really. Dad has always used chicken muck and whatever else he could get so ours have never been in really bad shape but we have a couple of contract farms that really need improving.
 

Mr chips

Member
Location
N yorks
I believe slug pellets have been a major fact in the decline of worm numbers on many farms. I know by what I see around our us. We have used very few over the last 20yrs . Even on potatoes. We have more worms than ever. Manure. chopped straw. Cc . All help.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
I think regenerative type farming methods, or lots of muck if you can get it or preferably both. We are trying to make them better with chicken muck, no till, cover/catch/companion crops CTF etc and reducing the amount of fert and Chem we use but it’s a long term thing really. Dad has always used chicken muck and whatever else he could get so ours have never been in really bad shape but we have a couple of contract farms that really need improving.
That's our usual tactic! Plaster it in muck. I know you don't have livestock so was interested what you would do.
 

Pilatus

Member
Location
cotswolds
How do you go about reversing this?
Being a bore , “In THEORY by using 3 / 4 yr leys, to cleanse the soil of chemicals?”, or the ultimate if one can make it pay go organic, I admire those of you are gradually moving towards what I would call, “a half way house system of farming between conventional arable farming and organic crop farming”,
is that what is now called the “BASE” System of farming ( used to be called rotational farming utilising grass leys and the manure from the beef cattle overwintered in sheds which also used to utilise arable labour during the winter months)?
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Being a bore , “In THEORY by using 3 / 4 yr leys, to cleanse the soil of chemicals?”, or the ultimate if one can make it pay go organic, I admire those of you are gradually moving towards what I would call, “a half way house system of farming between conventional arable farming and organic crop farming”,
is that what is now called the “BASE” System of farming ( used to be called rotational farming utilising grass leys)?

In my opinion going organic would be a disaster. Would be like a drug addict going cold turkey. There will be little, no reserves there.

3/4year ley I agree with. Even clover fallow for a few years and just top it back in. If can afford to take land out of production.
 

PSQ

Member
Arable Farmer
Probably should post this under the DD categories but felt it may not be viewed by non DD folk.

Been soil sampling on a couple of large direct drilled farms recently and consequently dug a lot of holes. One of the farms was about 1200 acres, been direct drilling for about 15 years. Stubbles looked very poor, ground like concrete but what I noticed was hardly any worms. Probably saw 5 in the 600 holes I dug.
Another DD farm was a very similar picture but for the first time this year they've done some heavy cultivations and a bit of ploughing on some blocks.

Tested about 200 acres on a farm the same week, who plough every field, every year and nearly every time I dug a hole, I saw a worm or accidentally cut it in half.
Comparing the soils, I know which one I'd prefer to be a worm in.

Heresy! - BURN HIM !!!

😂😂😂
 

Scholsey

Member
Location
Herefordshire
Probably should post this under the DD categories but felt it may not be viewed by non DD folk.

Been soil sampling on a couple of large direct drilled farms recently and consequently dug a lot of holes. One of the farms was about 1200 acres, been direct drilling for about 15 years. Stubbles looked very poor, ground like concrete but what I noticed was hardly any worms. Probably saw 5 in the 600 holes I dug.
Another DD farm was a very similar picture but for the first time this year they've done some heavy cultivations and a bit of ploughing on some blocks.

Tested about 200 acres on a farm the same week, who plough every field, every year and nearly every time I dug a hole, I saw a worm or accidentally cut it in half.
Comparing the soils, I know which one I'd prefer to be a worm in.

Your going to get a knock on the door by 2 chaps wearing Mzuri hats and Fendt waistcoats and water boarded to death with glyphosate.
 

Hampton

Member
BASIS
Location
Shropshire
I think regenerative type farming methods, or lots of muck if you can get it or preferably both. We are trying to make them better with chicken muck, no till, cover/catch/companion crops CTF etc and reducing the amount of fert and Chem we use but it’s a long term thing really. Dad has always used chicken muck and whatever else he could get so ours have never been in really bad shape but we have a couple of contract farms that really need improving.
I no longer believe chicken muck, sewage sludge or digestate actually benefit the soils. I think they help achieve bigger yields but are more short term benefits.
Strawy cattle or pig muck (or sheep muck) is the best thing for this by miles.
Chicken muck mixed with compost may be a decent compromise
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Being a bore , “In THEORY by using 3 / 4 yr leys, to cleanse the soil of chemicals?”, or the ultimate if one can make it pay go organic, I admire those of you are gradually moving towards what I would call, “a half way house system of farming between conventional arable farming and organic crop farming”,
is that what is now called the “BASE” System of farming ( used to be called rotational farming utilising grass leys and the manure from the beef cattle overwintered in sheds which also used to utilise arable labour during the winter months)?
Ha, So ' base ' is just another trendy name for what we have actually always done :rolleyes:

Theres a' base 'cleverchappie posting peas and barley combi crops here , how novel and clever :unsure:except what he doesn't realise is it will yield well without fungicide and heavy extra fertility added. (y) . Probably got advice from an agronomist .
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
That's our usual tactic! Plaster it in muck. I know you don't have livestock so was interested what you would do.
I no longer believe chicken muck, sewage sludge or digestate actually benefit the soils. I think they help achieve bigger yields but are more short term benefits.
Strawy cattle or pig muck (or sheep muck) is the best thing for this by miles.
Chicken muck mixed with compost may be a decent compromise
Yes I think you are right, I’ve thought about making compost from chicken muck and wood chip. The chicken muck infront of a cover crop does build a huge crop and route system which in turn adds a lot back to the soil. It’s the root exudates that really build soil.
I’m not convinced sewage sludge is even safe anymore to be honest.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
If you are mucking ground with cattle fym every year then you're adding so much more bulky organic matter than we can ever do by chopping straw.

Best I can do is chop the straw, and apply as much digestate / fym as I can get from elsewhere. 40t/ha cattle muck on grass has completely vanished within a couple of months, so there must be some wildlife.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I no longer believe chicken muck, sewage sludge or digestate actually benefit the soils. I think they help achieve bigger yields but are more short term benefits.
Strawy cattle or pig muck (or sheep muck) is the best thing for this by miles.
Chicken muck mixed with compost may be a decent compromise
Also on the digestate front, someone who spoke at the base conference a few years ago said that anything over 20 cube nuked all the earthworms
 

mo!

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
York
If you are mucking ground with cattle fym every year then you're adding so much more bulky organic matter than we can ever do by chopping straw.

Best I can do is chop the straw, and apply as much digestate / fym as I can get from elsewhere. 40t/ha cattle muck on grass has completely vanished within a couple of months, so there must be some wildlife.
If every arable farmer chops their straw there'll be no straw to make FYM.
 

JonL

Member
Location
East Yorks
Think it's a lot to do with application method too, as certainly it can seal the surface a bit. Doesn't seem to be a problem with sensible rates with dribble bars.
Only issue I’ve seen with digestate and worms is where it’s pooled a bit on a capped spot. Generally lots of worms here behind all varieties of organic manure
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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