Merchant selling over yeared seed

Most merchants intentionally carry over undressed seed from one year to the next, to guarantee early supply.
It’s not fraud or a conspiracy, it’s good business.

Indeed it is, but you should inform the client that you intend to deliver over yeared seed rather than deliver it and let him find out afterward. It's called customer service.
 

Jinx

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
East Scotland
I expect most seed is over-yeared but in this they forgot to alter the label.
That's a ridiculous suggestion. You really believe that most seed harvested this year will be tucked away in sheds until it next year? Storage capacity, storage cost, cash flow, risk, etc. A merchant has precious little to gain. Aside from which, there's the fact that certified seed production in the UK is regulated and audited by NIAB, SASA & DAERA.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Would pish me off, if you are being sold over-yeared seed they should inform you of the fact at the outset. Of course, now you've taken delivery I bet they wouldn't take it back.

I had a delivery from that same company yesterday morning (sealed 9/2020) and the driver asked why I was checking the label so carefully. When I told him, he said he had had to swap some for the same reason at a farm near Oswestry.
I guess if you kick up enough of a stink, and refuse to pay, they would change it........or post you some new labels.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
That's a ridiculous suggestion. You really believe that most seed harvested this year will be tucked away in sheds until it next year? Storage capacity, storage cost, cash flow, risk, etc. A merchant has precious little to gain. Aside from which, there's the fact that certified seed production in the UK is regulated and audited by NIAB, SASA & DAERA.
What do you think happens with spring barley?
 

Jinx

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
East Scotland
Of course I know spring barley is stored until spring Chae. The point I was making is that it is ridiculous to suggest that the majority of winter seed (which this thread is about) is deliberately stored for a year, then fraudulently sold as new crop seed the following year.
 

RAF

Member
Location
staffs
Sown 15 acre 2 year old barley . See what happens oh and found some 10 year old stomp in back shed, goin have go at spraying that. Hold tight
 

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
I don't think the labels can legally be changed a germ test however can easily be done and those results could be emailed to the customer before delivery.
they could be on the label for all seed if it was a certification requirement but it isnt ,all it has to do is pass an early germ test and then either post or pre movement pass the official test above 85% thats why its pointless folks getting excited about tgw s
 
Of course I know spring barley is stored until spring Chae. The point I was making is that it is ridiculous to suggest that the majority of winter seed (which this thread is about) is deliberately stored for a year, then fraudulently sold as new crop seed the following year.

I'm not saying any seed is being sold fraudulently. I'm saying delivering over-yeared seed to a customer without informing him of the fact it is over-yeared is basic bad practice.
 

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
I'm not saying any seed is being sold fraudulently. I'm saying delivering over-yeared seed to a customer without informing him of the fact it is over-yeared is basic bad practice.
the thing is with this year being a more ear disease i.e fusarium (pink grains) than last year plus a chance of a few more grains sprouting its quite possible that seed from last year is of a higher germ than some of this year . Wether it is last years or this years it still has to pass the standards my only real concern would be wether it was dressed last year and if so with which chemical as some reduce germ/vigour over time
 
the thing is with this year being a more ear disease i.e fusarium (pink grains) than last year plus a chance of a few more grains sprouting its quite possible that seed from last year is of a higher germ than some of this year . Wether it is last years or this years it still has to pass the standards my only real concern would be wether it was dressed last year and if so with which chemical as some reduce germ/vigour over time

I don't disagree with you but even so it would be common courtesy to tell the customer you have over-yeared seed and will be delivering that.
 

Jinx

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
East Scotland
I'm not saying any seed is being sold fraudulently. I'm saying delivering over-yeared seed to a customer without informing him of the fact it is over-yeared is basic bad practice.
Agreed. My reply was specifically directed at someone else's post.

Aaaaaaaaanyway, over yeared winter seed is a good thing for me. I like to sow Scottish produced seed to support my local merchants (not that I have anything against Englandistan btw) and for winter seed, especially wheat, it is more difficult for producers to get seed turned around in time so that means buying some yearling and some new crop. I agree you should know what you're going to be supplied with though Ollie (y)
 

Jinx

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
East Scotland
Also meant to say @4course, I think the reason Vibrance Duo may not be labelled for seed barley crops is because it doesn't give full control of loose smut. It would need to be doubled up with something else. I could be wrong though...
 

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
I don't disagree with you but even so it would be common courtesy to tell the customer you have over-yeared seed and will be delivering that.
ok ,as we are agreeing not to disagree with each other whilst common courtesy yes but why are folks are getting uptight about it standards are standard its a bit like best before dates/sell by dates on supermarket food . as an aside most folks hardly ever read or understand the official label even if theve looked at it
 

Barry

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Just a few comments from a merchant's perspective. Every business has some Overyeared seed either stuff they deliberately over year to supply those customers that want early delivery or because there is seed left over from the previous year.

All seed has to be fit for purpose and therefore should have a current germination test that is above the legal minimum (85% for wheat barley et cetera)
so Overyeared seed is generally germination tested a month or so before it is due to be treated/sent out.

In principle I agree if you are wishing to supply Overyeared seed to a customer who had not specifically asked for it then you should discuss it with him before you do it. Mistakes do sometimes happen and a phone call doesn't get made, but it should.

As has been suggested sometimes the quality of Overyeared seed is better than the new crop, sometimes the other way round. But it does have to be tested and verified by those tests that it is fit for purpose.

To my knowledge, and it is a personal view, the seed treatments in general use today do not have any significant phytotoxic effect on the seed such that the germination should hold on treated seed pretty well. Falloff in germination can happen on Overyeared seed and there have been a number of reports this year where that has happened. It is not always clear why it happens but obviously storage conditions are important as is the original germination and vigour of the seed.
 
ok ,as we are agreeing not to disagree with each other whilst common courtesy yes but why are folks are getting uptight about it standards are standard its a bit like best before dates/sell by dates on supermarket food . as an aside most folks hardly ever read or understand the official label even if theve looked at it

There is nothing wrong with over-yeared seed- I have had the stuff tested and used it many times without a problem. The merchant should still inform the customer that it will be over-yeared. It's common courtesy.
 

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
Just a few comments from a merchant's perspective. Every business has some Overyeared seed either stuff they deliberately over year to supply those customers that want early delivery or because there is seed left over from the previous year.

All seed has to be fit for purpose and therefore should have a current germination test that is above the legal minimum (85% for wheat barley et cetera)
so Overyeared seed is generally germination tested a month or so before it is due to be treated/sent out.

In principle I agree if you are wishing to supply Overyeared seed to a customer who had not specifically asked for it then you should discuss it with him before you do it. Mistakes do sometimes happen and a phone call doesn't get made, but it should.

As has been suggested sometimes the quality of Overyeared seed is better than the new crop, sometimes the other way round. But it does have to be tested and verified by those tests that it is fit for purpose.

To my knowledge, and it is a personal view, the seed treatments in general use today do not have any significant phytotoxic effect on the seed such that the germination should hold on treated seed pretty well. Falloff in germination can happen on Overyeared seed and there have been a number of reports this year where that has happened. It is not always clear why it happens but obviously storage conditions are important as is the original germination and vigour of the seed.
check out the labels a fair few of the most popular/expensive are in season of application only which is why there is a difference between treated last year and kept over or treated after being held over as grown , without due diligence some folks could be falling foul of the dreaded f a without realising
 

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