Joe Biden...

Danllan · Sep 30, 2020

capfits said:
@Danllan @bluegreen @Honest john
Do please tell me Donald trumps best bit (no conferring)...

You need to read my post (below) again' I've made no judgement or comment as to what were 'best' by either of them, but watched the clips being spun by the Republican and Democratic supporters in the media which - it is reasonable to assume - they thought were their chap's 'best'.

Danllan said:
Hmm... I didn't watch the whole thing - who would? - but, in an effort at impartiality, I have now seen the bits that both sides claim were their man's best and...

Biden was not as awful as I thought he might be, but he certainly didn't make any 'killer' blows, he allowed himself to digress too readily, and forgot a lot of obvious points in rebuttal. Worst of all, he seemed incapable of taking the 'moral high-ground' even when it was served up to him on a silver salver.

President Trump also failed to get in any major blows and he didn't seem to have that many decent 'points' anyway, I am left thinking that - strategically - he probably came off best, just. Not because he had the better arguments, which he didn't, and not because he was the more plausible and articulate, which he certainly wasn't. I think he came out on top because he got Biden to sink down to his level...

Ashtree · Sep 30, 2020

Cal Thomas American Journalist), right wing conservative Republican, and Trump supporter, is interviewed weekly by Matt Cooper on Irish Radio.

In today’s interview looking back at the debate, whilst he said he would never bring himself to say Biden won it, he said that Trump absolutely lost it / threw it away in maelstrom of nonsense.
Coming from him, I guess there are many, many more Trump supporters who think likewise.
Soft Trump supporters were probably put finally off him. Wavering Biden supporters were also probably pushed firmly in the Biden zone.

Pasty · Sep 30, 2020

Ashtree said:
Cal Thomas American Journalist), right wing conservative Republican, and Trump supporter, is interviewed weekly by Matt Cooper on Irish Radio.

In today’s interview looking back at the debate, whilst he said he would never bring himself to say Biden won it, he said that Trump absolutely lost it / threw it away in maelstrom of nonsense.
Coming from him, I guess there are many, many more Trump supporters who think likewise.
Soft Trump supporters were probably put finally off him. Wavering Biden supporters were also probably pushed firmly in the Biden zone.

Dream on. We haven't yet got to why Creepy Joe's druggy son get's paid $83k a month out of Ukraine after Daddy got involved in a deal there.

Hindsight · Sep 30, 2020

Pasty said:
Dream on. We haven't yet got to why Creepy Joe's druggy son get's paid $83k a month out of Ukraine after Daddy got involved in a deal there.

But will that matter. I assume most of us assume here in UK and those Amercans in USA that senior politicians having climbed the greasy pole pull severa fast ones to feather the nest and look after family members. After all here in UK an MP salary is not that great for the lifestyle many of them seem to lead.

Danllan · Sep 30, 2020

Hindsight said:
But will that matter. I assume most of us assume here in UK and those Amercans in USA that senior politicians having climbed the greasy pole pull severa fast ones to feather the nest and look after family members. After all here in UK an MP salary is not that great for the lifestyle many of them seem to lead.

Hitherto it has been the 'perks' that enabled this, preferential mortgages, 'expenses' that stretched to ridiculous claims and the like. It irritates me that they get paid for going on TV while, in theory, they are public servants.

This isn't a party political, leaver / remainer or left / right matter, MPs from all parties and sides do it.

Hindsight · Oct 1, 2020

Another factor I suggest may be the impact of Biden's running mate Harris. If she is perceived as a potential President then that may strengthen Bidens case. Interesting times ahead. What do the bookies say?

Honest john · Oct 1, 2020

oil barron said:
Yes, that’s the one. Whichever way you look at it, America is on the way down from it’s second wave while Europe is just starting theirs and America has killed less people per Capita.
View attachment 902920

Deaths pre 100,000 are remarkably close if you remove the outliner.

Honest john · Oct 1, 2020

bluegreen said:
The elites (Oligarchs) plan for this planet for over a century now has been a One World Government, run by them, for them. Trump and BoJos inconvenient election victories have complicated this plan, hence the outright hostility towards the pair of them.
The favoured choice of these elites is Marxism for all (not for them of course) and in America the Democrat party has been hijacked by left wing extremists who fully intend to implement this. Look at all the riots in Democratic blue states presently as the BLM (black lives matters) and Antifa (Anti fascism ) are wrecking peoples businesses and homes. Americas youth has been increasingly taught a socialist agenda to get them ready for the future, for proof of this just see how popular hardcore socialist Bernie Sanders was with young voters during the US primaries, finishing a close second once again!

For more information on the "Radical" element of your question Hindsight, you need to look at Saul Alinskys book "Rules for Radicals" which is the lefts bible for dealing with people who don't agree with their narrative. Or more conveniently ask Ollie98 as he appears to be an expert at using Alinskys rules! You may also be interested to know that Alinsky was Hilary Clintons mentor, which explains a great deal about this awful woman!

That’s it in a nut shell.
For sure some of my kids went to uni as a Conservative & came out Socialist.

I am not sure if Capitalism is promoted in education.

Mek · Oct 1, 2020

Honest john said:
That’s it in a nut shell.
For sure some of my kids went to uni as a Conservative & came out Socialist.

I am not sure if Capitalism is promoted in education.

When you are young ,educated and idealistic, socialism is the obvious choice. Capitalism usually comes in later on when you realise you can’t make the world a better place so it’s every man for himself.

Muck Spreader · Oct 1, 2020

Danllan said:
Hitherto it has been the 'perks' that enabled this, preferential mortgages, 'expenses' that stretched to ridiculous claims and the like. It irritates me that they get paid for going on TV while, in theory, they are public servants.

This isn't a party political, leaver / remainer or left / right matter, MPs from all parties and sides do it.

Ultimately, you have to pay them properly for being an MP. But that should then mean it's a fulltime occupation, not how so many of them treat it as as a lucrative side line and a way of gaining influence and contracts.

Hindsight · Oct 1, 2020

Muck Spreader said:
Ultimately, you have to pay them properly for being an MP. But that should then mean it's a fulltime occupation, not how so many of them treat it as as a lucrative side line and a way of gaining influence and contracts.

They would just take the extra money and just carry on as before - smell the coffee to use that phrase. I think there is the odd MP more on the Labour benches who are more 'working class' from a 'poorer' background who might fit into your mould. But most of them - no chance. It will always be the case. And why I am always amused by the phrase 'public service'. What a contradiction of terms. Hey ho - I sound like a bitter old man!! Now wheres that video clip of Victor Meldrew or Alf Garnett.

Danllan · Oct 1, 2020

Muck Spreader said:
Ultimately, you have to pay them properly for being an MP. But that should then mean it's a fulltime occupation, not how so many of them treat it as as a lucrative side line and a way of gaining influence and contracts.

The basic pay for an MP is £82k, plus they can claim travel and living expenses (accommodation & food etc.) as well as all staffing expenses for their offices. I've know several MPs and, comparing how much work they do to, say, a GP, senior teacher or successful criminal Barrister, I think that's a decent wage.

Muck Spreader · Oct 1, 2020

Danllan said:
The basic pay for an MP is £82k, plus they can claim travel and living expenses (accommodation & food etc.) as well as all staffing expenses for their offices. I've know several MPs and, comparing how much work they do to, say, a GP, senior teacher or successful criminal Barrister, I think that's a decent wage.

If it is a decent wage, why do we end up with so many mediocre MP's and ministers. How do you dynamise the job of MP so it brings forward the great political minds of the future?

Highland Mule · Oct 1, 2020

Muck Spreader said:
If it is a decent wage, why do we end up with so many mediocre MP's and ministers. How do you dynamise the job of MP so it brings forward the great political minds of the future?

I'm not sure it's that great - you can get almost as much or maybe more managing a local supermarket - and have no need for the admin of expenses and all that as well. I certainly wouldn't put my family into the public eye and myself on a short term contract for that sort of money.

ollie989898 · Oct 1, 2020

Danllan said:
The basic pay for an MP is £82k, plus they can claim travel and living expenses (accommodation & food etc.) as well as all staffing expenses for their offices. I've know several MPs and, comparing how much work they do to, say, a GP, senior teacher or successful criminal Barrister, I think that's a decent wage.

I don't believe it is enough money. I would stop them from holding directorships and the usual stuff whilst they are serving MPs. I would make their expenses a matter for the public record (probably already are) and limit their expenses, too. No employing your friends, spouse or kids, either.

No civil servant in any capacity should be earning more than the prime minister, it is that simple. If they don't like it, they can fudge off and get a job in the private sector.

Danllan · Oct 1, 2020

Muck Spreader said:
If it is a decent wage, why do we end up with so many mediocre MP's and ministers. How do you dynamise the job of MP so it brings forward the great political minds of the future?

I can't see as it needs dynamising - is that a word?

- beyond what it is. Either you want to serve or you don't and a reasonable wage, which £82k certainly is by any measure, is sufficient for anyone's needs.

The problem is... there are many who want to serve, but don't have the proper ability to do so, and these are exactly the sort that party top-dogs want as lobby-fodder.

I've a lot of time for the idea of 'primaries', it would thin out fields and give the public an effective veto over utter w*nkers that parties want but who wouldn't be much good to or for their constituents. The only problem is, typically, that the more vehement on any side would do their best to see decent people - whose views they don't like - written off.

Let's have a discussion about how to get around that one...

ollie989898 · Oct 1, 2020

Danllan said:
I can't see as it needs dynamising - is that a word? - beyond what it is. Either you want to serve or you don't and a reasonable wage, which £82k certainly is by any measure, is sufficient for anyone's needs.

The problem is... there are many who want to serve, but don't have the proper ability to do so, and these are exactly the sort that party top-dogs want as lobby-fodder.

I've a lot of time for the idea of 'primaries', it would thin out fields and give the public an effective veto over utter w*nkers that parties want but who wouldn't be much good to or for their constituents. The only problem is, typically, that the more vehement on any side would do their best to see decent people - whose views they don't like - written off.

Let's have a discussion about how to get around that one...

UK politics has somehow adopted a lot of the USA's political 'theatre'. In the USA, any moderates appear to have very little voice, with the big names just spouting political propaganda and vitriol which means nothing and helps no one. The UK has started to use the same language. It's corrosive to UK politics and a waste of time. I think the public is fed up of the bilge. Prime Minister's questions today is just a load of political show-boating with Labour and co looking to stick the boot in and get themselves on TV/Youtube. Given the current circumstances, I would prefer to see MP's genuinely cooperating toward shaping policy. I'm bored of the tit for tat and refuse to watch it now. I felt Corbyn entered the arena with the right intentions and wanted to keep the discussion on target and professional. Within weeks it was back to the commie/little red book quips which is not worth the going rate for a 90 minute comedy show, much less the millions politicians of all stripes in this country are costing.

It's high time for a realistic and long term view of politics rather than sound bites and short-termist thinking aimed at nothing more than the next election. It's a waste of time to watch, a waste of time to pay for and a waste of time to even allow. I do wish that these undoubtedly very skilled and very clever people (or at least some of them) could stop waving sabres all day and do something useful instead.

PaulNix · Oct 1, 2020

Highland Mule said:
I'm not sure it's that great - you can get almost as much or maybe more managing a local supermarket - and have no need for the admin of expenses and all that as well. I certainly wouldn't put my family into the public eye and myself on a short term contract for that sort of money.

I assume most who could get a high paid job doing something else would be but how many MP's would actually be capable of managing that local supermarket !
They are definitely overpaid but would paying more actually get better people, as you got to get through the picking of the candidate's process which is extremely divisive.

br jones · Oct 1, 2020

Highland Mule said:
I'm not sure it's that great - you can get almost as much or maybe more managing a local supermarket - and have no need for the admin of expenses and all that as well. I certainly wouldn't put my family into the public eye and myself on a short term contract for that sort of money.

You can get more running a local council/ healthcare trust etc

arcobob · Oct 1, 2020

Honest john said:
That’s it in a nut shell.
For sure some of my kids went to uni as a Conservative & came out Socialist.

I am not sure if Capitalism is promoted in education.

University lecturers are not in the real world and the kids are also greatly influenced by the National Union of Students who are in turn infiltrated and manipulated. The London School of Economics has been a hot bed for years. Most of these kids see the light as they experience life in the real world. Those who remain in the institutions never shake off the mental scars and many of those become lecturers to the next generation.

Joe Biden...

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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