- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
We can out-cheap corn and we can undercut oil, can't we White-girl?
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
We can out-cheap corn and we can undercut oil, can't we White-girl?
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
Is that grass fed genetics forum on Facebook, Pete?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Yes!
- Location
- somerset
been lucky enough to have been given, a load of farming mags, from 1951/2, the most striking difference, is the size of the cattle, much smaller, and the photo's are mainly of the winners, at various shows, also, from all around the british empire, as well. Farmers, in some ways, are greedy, we want the biggest and best ! This has led to the breeders, breeding larger, to win prizes, as until fairly recent times, show winners, were the top, no figures, like EBL, or PLI, were available. So, we were breeding from the biggest, not necessarily the best, even now, size is important, in farmers eyes. Many still buy, by looks, not figures.
Fast forward to now, big holstien cows, big continental suckler cows, are very popular. NZ and our grazing system cows, have realised, you can get more kg/beef/milk/acre, with smaller cows. With the bull breeders, this is a problem, if they start producing smaller beef bulls, they would get hammered on price, farmers, looking for biggest, which may well be, less profitable. The difference between, big/small, is very noticeable, in stocking rate, you can keep more cows/acre, therefore more calves/beef, but perhaps, the biggest difference, is that you can leave smaller cattle, out, for a longer grazing season, they do not damage the soil, like big heavy cows. The spring grazing herds, have shown it works, and works well. NBA, have caused controversy, over the suggested changes to carcass age/weight, smaller cows, producing more kg/ac of beef, are far more efficient, than big cows, producing less, and that's before the 'carbon' is added in. Realise, i will have upset some, reading this, i therefore apologise now.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
Nothing to apologise for there!
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
The odd thing there is that countries with the harshest, longest winters (ie, not here
) tend to run the biggest cows (increases feeding / wintering cost, even on 5p/kgDM) and then end up wondering why the cow/calf job never seems to have a lot of money in it 
If you have to feed a cow '100kg too big' for 50 days, then there's an extra 100kgDM down the hatch.
But if you feed for 200 days then that's 400kgDM which becomes an expensive thing to breed for, an odd thing in some ways... why make a tough job tougher?
Chances are 14 500kg cows will give you more calves than 10 700kg cows
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
You see it all the time on the mainstream areas of the forum: 'My Limmy cows take some feeding, eight month winter here, it's a hard place to farm etc.'The odd thing there is that countries with the harshest, longest winters (ie, not here
If you have to feed a cow '100kg too big' for 50 days, then there's an extra 100kgDM down the hatch.
But if you feed for 200 days then that's 400kgDM which becomes an expensive thing to breed for, an odd thing in some ways... why make a tough job tougher?
Chances are 14 500kg cows will give you more calves than 10 700kg cows
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It is when you are trying to farm woolly mammoths in a shaking swamp!!
but "mebbe I loike the misery" Mrs Doyle
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
But never t' mind 
I like doing stuff the easy way if possible
Do lambing and calving when there's a bit of feed and decent weather do do it in
Spread a wee bit o shite when the ground is properly good to go, with a light machine
Make hay while the sun shines, sit inside out of the heat and the wet
I like doing stuff the easy way if possible
Spread a wee bit o shite when the ground is properly good to go, with a light machine
Nothing wrong it what your saying and as farmers we have to be careful following trends but the problem with the small cow argument is the UK spec grid, anything under 270kg dead weight is penalised.
So 500kg - 550kg live weight will get hammered on price , if you leave some small native bred animals to gain over that weight they go fat & get penalised that way.
Like all things it's finding the right balance.
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
Circumstances have meddled in my plans again. This year, annus horribilis 2020, I lambed late to coincide with the above. For next year I had planned to lamb maybe two or three weeks earlier. I figured I'm feeding the ewes hay and crystalyx buckets at the end of the Winter/early Spring anyway just before predicted grass growth so why not go that time. Well I check my rams today and what's in with them, f**king pinkeye, guess I'll be keeping the boys and girls seperate another while until I clear it up. Bought in new ram that brought it along with him, should have known as the valley where he came from is a known problem area.
I run some big cows here but not exactly by design, trying to breed them smaller, but they are pedigree Herefords and I like some of them a lot
But I'll have them out until Christmas here unless the weather really turns to shite, they'd be in now if they were stuck in the same field and I was feeding bales.
Moved them off of this yesterday, been on it for 48 hours of rain
- Location
- somerset
with the xbred cows, culls under 220kg carcass weight, take a fair knock, and the NBA, pushing for the younger/lighter carcasses, will have to work hard to change that. It's easy to get side tracked, on carcass value, the best measure, is kg/beef/acre sold, similar to milk, it may well be, the extra kg's of beef, counter the heavier carcass, and that's before taking into account, cow maintenance costs, smaller cows, can stay out longer, and eat less, both big +'s. And, then, you have the dreaded carbon production, do small cows, fart less than big ones ? I don't know, never stood behind 1 long enough ! They do claim smaller cows, are more carbon neutral, lighter carcasses certainly are, unfortunately, carbon, is a buzz word, and no doubt, will continue to be so, any planning, should always bear that, in mind, restraints, will be set, by people that are NOT farmers.
why is producing more kg of beef more efficient ? apart from more kg/acre of beef what are you achieving ?
by the way we have a well muscled but relatively small BRB bull for sale if anyone wants small animals with lots of beef he may well be your Lad
won't be over money either
Apparently the most efficient way to get meat from grass is rabbits, why are we not all keeping them ?
Or at least intentionally keeping them
Could it be because its not what the customer wants
Which will make you the most profit a few less of what the customer wants or a few more of what they don't really want but will buy at a price?
Or at least intentionally keeping them
Could it be because its not what the customer wants
Which will make you the most profit a few less of what the customer wants or a few more of what they don't really want but will buy at a price?
Farmers with big tractors say their efficient because they do more work per driver , other farmers say small tractors are more efficient because they burn less fuel , who's right ? Probably somewhere in between or different tractors suit different farms....same with cow sizes.
The one with no tractor?
That's true