"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

gadgewalker

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hi folks. Been working my way through from the start of the thread and hit a bit of conversation about broadcast/overseeing by just scattering in front or behind stock.

Would be interested in this to maybe bring in some chocory/plantain/Red clover.

Can anyone impart some wisdom and experience on how it was done and if it actually worked?

Cheers
 

gadgewalker

Member
Livestock Farmer
Those species are probably the best ones to try, we're seeing a lot of them and some of it will be due to broadcasting, some will be due to trying to reduce the frequency of grazing - which assists taprooted plants by itself, you aren't pruning the root as much. Plantain just grows, easy to get it established as the seed just waits for disturbance
What length of rest time do you reckon you need to allow more species to come through? Just in general not necessarily from anything you've seeded.
 

bendigeidfran

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cei newydd
no, but before long, both will have to run the businesses, for the benefit of the environment, whether either, likes it, or not. That, will be controlled, by civil servants, that neither, know, or care, about, anything to do with the 'food chain'.
We have a very good relationship with our local abattoir, used to belly clip in the lairage there, spoke to the MD several times , it is a good thing to hear things from their perspective.
If he had the time he was allways interested to hear my side of things.
It's the supermarkets that worries me most, just filled in an angus premium form in to s't merryn, want them under 24m or -12p and over 280kg next year if i read right they want them by certain bulls.
It was a tesco form, it dont feel right a supermarket telling us what bulls we should be using.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
We have a very good relationship with our local abattoir, used to belly clip in the lairage there, spoke to the MD several times , it is a good thing to hear things from their perspective.
If he had the time he was allways interested to hear my side of things.
It's the supermarkets that worries me most, just filled in an angus premium form in to s't merryn, want them under 24m or -12p and over 280kg next year if i read right they want them by certain bulls.
It was a tesco form, it dont feel right a supermarket telling us what bulls we should be using.
You will be clocking on and off soon enough
 

Rob Garrett

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Derbyshire UK
Do you make them eat the turnip bulbs - or happy to leave them?
Normally would get them to eat as much as poss. but last winter just got too wet, so let them regrow on one field. Mucked & ploughed in on another field, thinking being bulbs would be slower release/breakdown when spring oats needed it.
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Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
What length of rest time do you reckon you need to allow more species to come through? Just in general not necessarily from anything you've seeded.
I suppose it depends on and relates to current management/recovery periods? 🤔
We normally graze fast as growth here is reliable (because rainfall is!) and shifting from a 50-day to a 120+ day recovery meant we see all sorts... borage, woolly mullein, chicory.. where they would never have been seeded. Just seed from the gut of store lambs long since departed?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Whats this about nitrogen limits in nz?
Another question I have regarding this - is with unchecked gorse, broom, lupins all along our waterways (and many other legumes as well) I wonder how they will cap those?

It's very possible that "stockproof fence" along every waterway will indeed make the nitrification issue worse over time, because they haven't quite thought that far ahead
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Another question I have regarding this - is with unchecked gorse, broom, lupins all along our waterways (and many other legumes as well) I wonder how they will cap those?

It's very possible that "stockproof fence" along every waterway will indeed make the nitrification issue worse over time, because they haven't quite thought that far ahead
So are nz farmers being told to reduce nitrogen applications?
 
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but what has the size of the animal got to do with the environment ?
are elephants and blue whales bad ? or is it ants and earwigs ?

It's in a video I've watched before, but I would have to trawl through days of info to find it and I'm not doing that, but regarding size larger heavier animals are harder on the ground which leads to erosion. In the environment being discussed at the time, larger cattle also made less money on a per acre/hectare basis. But the "conventional wisdom" was to breed bigger, cos bigger was better, just cos.

Most likely either a Kit Pharo or Allen Williams video.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
It's in a video I've watched before, but I would have to trawl through days of info to find it and I'm not doing that, but regarding size larger heavier animals are harder on the ground which leads to erosion. In the environment being discussed at the time, larger cattle also made less money on a per acre/hectare basis. But the "conventional wisdom" was to breed bigger, cos bigger was better, just cos.

Most likely either a Kit Pharo or Allen Williams video.
It's certainly very relevant, even to our situation, and we do bugger-all breeding or producing.
But it remains true, the higher our stocking rate the more income we can generate per hectare, larger animals simply work against high stocking rates. Smaller animals eat less food.

The key as a grazier is to "do it well enough" that people talk and you can eeek a few more $ per animal when you're talking prices, eg if you can create a 'brand' then you can almost step out of being a price-taker to an extent
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
It's in a video I've watched before, but I would have to trawl through days of info to find it and I'm not doing that, but regarding size larger heavier animals are harder on the ground which leads to erosion. In the environment being discussed at the time, larger cattle also made less money on a per acre/hectare basis. But the "conventional wisdom" was to breed bigger, cos bigger was better, just cos.

Most likely either a Kit Pharo or Allen Williams video.
Buffalo are quite sizeable
is erosion bad? without it we would have some very high mountains? are very high mountains good ?
should we all keep Dexter's then ? or sheep ? but I thought Pete said sheep didn't cause enough impact ?
I thought conventional wisdom was to breed small, remember the belt buckle angus ? would these create enough impact for Pete ?
so many questions to which someone else has all the answers
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Buffalo are quite sizeable
is erosion bad? without it we would have some very high mountains? are very high mountains good ?
should we all keep Dexter's then ? or sheep ? but I thought Pete said sheep didn't cause enough impact ?
I thought conventional wisdom was to breed small, remember the belt buckle angus ? would these create enough impact for Pete ?
so many questions to which someone else has all the answers
Erosion is bad if you want your farm to be continually improving. It's often swept aside as "part of producing food", but is it?
It might be part of producing commodity food/ raw ingredients in some farm systems but my veg garden is growing, not eroding.... it produces food

Best not to get me going on sheep, they're why our land needs improving now, the legacy of sheep farming.... small cattle are just the tools for us, 250-350kg.
We don't live in a suitable climate for big cattle
 
Buffalo are quite sizeable
is erosion bad? without it we would have some very high mountains? are very high mountains good ?
should we all keep Dexter's then ? or sheep ? but I thought Pete said sheep didn't cause enough impact ?
I thought conventional wisdom was to breed small, remember the belt buckle angus ? would these create enough impact for Pete ?
so many questions to which someone else has all the answers

You may keep what ever you like, I was just answering the question. If a big cow makes less per acre/hectare than smaller cow, and the big cow also proceeds to damage the land or require expensive wintering then it make sense in that context to keep a smaller cow.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
This
and presumably there is a market for these ?
I assume there will be... but "not my problem", I'm paid to use them as tools 😀

One of the cool and unique things about grazing - a builder isn't going to come to me and say "well, there's really no work on at the moment, how about I pay you $1800 a week to keep my saws and nailgun at your place, just don't let them sit out and get rusty" but another farmer effectively is doing that (well, 3 other farmers are doing that).

I presume that they are envisaging quite a bright future for their stock sales or they wouldn't be outbidding the dairy operators when it comes to calf grazing 🤷‍♂️
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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