A certain trailer pass scheme

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The only time I tipped a trailer over I was doing 5 mph. I was carting a 1600 litre orange juice drum on a 3 ton trailer across a field to the drain jetter. The wheel dropped into a rabbit hole, the water in the juice tub sloshed and over she went. There was a mini tsunami as the juice tube hit the deck and split open which startled a passing group of bush beaters. The trailer actually righted itself again once it had shed its load due to the torsion in the drawbar.
As said above trailer overturns during the silage season here in the 70’s were a regular occurrence all due to reckless driving. The phone box on the corner in the village was flattened every year until they moved it up the road.
Having learned to drive on machinery with little or even no brakes I always drive accordingly, never relying on brakes.
What does surprise me is that there aren’t far more accidents during harvest time with inexperienced students carting huge loads at high speed on narrow back lanes. Do the people who employ inexperienced youngsters not take their inexperience into account in any sort of risk assessment? To me it just looks an accident waiting to happen even with good brakes.
There is a hell of a lot more to safety than efficient brakes. I still regard them as a bonus. If I need to rely on them heavily then I consider I have failed in my job as a responsible anticipatory driver.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
This is true, to be honest maize carting with tractors should be banned. A friend of mine was doing a 50 mile round trip last year. How utterly ridiculous is that?

Are you for real?

Is it just maize that you don’t think should be carted with tractors? What about grain, often carried in the same sized trailers? What about maize that is only carted a mile (or less) back to the pit, as I expect would happen on a lot of farms?

Personally, I think anyone under the age of 50 shouldn’t be allowed to drive vehicles on the road that weigh over 5t gross. How’s that for an equally ridiculous idea?🤐
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The burgeoning of long distant contract farming arrangements has vastly increased the number of tractors and trailers on the roads here. I find them a pain to be honest and not really working in the spirit of the red diesel rebate and zero cost licence, never mind lack of testing. I’d made all road haulage HGV only.
I’m alright Jack. I’m ring fenced.👍
 
What does surprise me is that there aren’t far more accidents during harvest time with inexperienced students carting huge loads at high speed on narrow back lanes. Do the people who employ inexperienced youngsters not take their inexperience into account in any sort of risk assessment? To me it just looks an accident waiting to happen even with good brakes.

If they have a risk assessment, it will probably say that all drivers have undergone training or are experienced i.e this could be as little as they have done a tractor driving course at college or have spent a afternoon in a tractor somewhere and so are deemed competent/experienced.

A lot of the HGV firms now will get an experienced member of staff to shadow all new starts for a couple of days, don't think it will ever really take off in the tractor driving world.. but it probably should
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
If they have a risk assessment, it will probably say that all drivers have undergone training or are experienced i.e this could be as little as they have done a tractor driving course at college or have spent a afternoon in a tractor somewhere and so are deemed competent/experienced.

A lot of the HGV firms now will get an experienced member of staff to shadow all new starts for a couple of days, don't think it will ever really take off in the tractor driving world.. but it probably should

There are already performance and tracking facilities available, factory fitted for tractors from several brands where HQ can monitor relevant statistics for each unit and driver in real time. Problem is that it requires someone at HQ that gives a damn about driving safely and steadily, rather than turnaround time.

I remember the tale of a neighbouring farmer, years ago, that used to 'time and motion' his workers. This was in the very early sixties when I was a child and they were using MF65 tractors on in-line flail forager. After timing one worker in one field, the machine went to another field with a heavier crop, and the six speed tractor had to change down from third low to second low. Those of you that have driven a six speed Massey will know that there is a massive difference in speed between the two ratios and, obviously, the time to fill a trailer significantly increased even though the crop was heavier. What the farmer did, as the driver was about to reverse the machine, which had a slam hitch [similar to that commonly fitted to Kidd Double Chop], was to reach with his stick and pull the hand throttle fully open to speed the trailer change up. With the tractor in high reverse [low was too slow to 'slam'] the tractor flew back, missing the slam hitch so than the drawbar of the trailer was well and truly flailed. They were on stop for a whole day fetching new flails and repairing.

The moral is and always will be to work hard but steadily and safely to minimise downtime and accidents. Continuous uninterrupted work achieves a far greater overall output at a lower cost than going hell for leather. A cool set of heads makes productive work and happy workers. Idiot bosses and/or workers imperil each other and the public and never achieve their potential due to breakages 'accidents' and downtime and personal stress.
 
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dudders

Member
Location
East Sussex
You mean trailers have brakes? 😲

Admittedly many years ago, I was hauling loads of hay from field to farm, about 4 miles on the local B-road, with no brakes. Neither on the trailer nor the little grey Fergie... Up and down (gentle) hills, just controlled speed with the gears. Not a lot faster than walking pace, tbh. ;)

Did years of hay carting round here, trailer loads of 120 small-bales behind the Ford 3000, trailers never had brakes then and I probably only used the tractor brakes to change down for the 1:6 descent to the farm entrance.

Still proud of my rolling changedown from 5th to 4th in that tractor - that's 2 gearsticks to shift and no synchro, for those who don't know.

Never tied a load down either, or lost a single bale. :cool:
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
It’s a sad state of affairs. Rather than tackling why things are happening, many looking in from the outside seem to want to take action to assign responsibility to others (hence such schemes etc). A trend of modern society.

Personally I think we’d all love to be driving round in perfectly serviced machines, everything done just so, all trailers checked annually by a professional to give us peace of mind, fully trained operators with many years experience, experts called in for this that and the other, machines changed after 5000hrs as a routine etc. It would make the job significantly less stressful for farmers themselves.

All and sundry will work out the costs of growing a crop of wheat.....but by the time you’ve added on all these extras these industry figures are irrelevant.
Not only that, but even if jobs are outsourced they still take a lot of time to organise/manage/check.

A modern farm is anything but simple these days. 1001 things to sort, 1001 places to get tripped up.

Even turning the lot over to fixed price contractors doesn’t guarantee everything is done right or make the industry safer - I’d suggest contractors are likely responsible for just as as many if not more road accidents than farmers.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
Some AD plants here are hauling grass/ maize silage 80+ miles in a round trip with tractors and trailers, about 4 years ago one was hauling maize 120 miles per round trip with tractors and trailers.
Are you for real?

Is it just maize that you don’t think should be carted with tractors? What about grain, often carried in the same sized trailers? What about maize that is only carted a mile (or less) back to the pit, as I expect would happen on a lot of farms?

Personally, I think anyone under the age of 50 shouldn’t be allowed to drive vehicles on the road that weigh over 5t gross. How’s that for an equally ridiculous idea?🤐
I was talking about these large gangs on AD plants which cart miles and miles illegally, should all be done on lorries and loaded over the hedge from a maus type implement.
Obviously if you are within weight limits and going within the legal limits of red diesel then it doesn’t count.
Some of these bug maize gangs carting miles are giving the rest of us a bad name.
 
I was talking about these large gangs on AD plants which cart miles and miles illegally, should all be done on lorries and loaded over the hedge from a maus type implement.
Obviously if you are within weight limits and going within the legal limits of red diesel then it doesn’t count.
Some of these bug maize gangs carting miles are giving the rest of us a bad name.
I’m pretty sure there’s no legal limit on how far you can haul in with a tractor and trailer on red diesel provided its for agricultural use, although I’m sure long distance haulage isn’t within the spirit of rebated fuel and free licences..........although many will be running over weight and over 40k..........and it’s not just maize
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I’m pretty sure there’s no legal limit on how far you can haul in with a tractor and trailer on red diesel provided its for agricultural use, although I’m sure long distance haulage isn’t within the spirit of rebated fuel and free licences..........although many will be running over weight and over 40k..........and it’s not just maize
Agree and it shouldn’t happen, pisses everyone off and makes the whole industry look bad.
I thought there was a certain distance you could go on red?
 
Agree and it shouldn’t happen, pisses everyone off and makes the whole industry look bad.
I thought there was a certain distance you could go on red?
Pretty sure it’s 15 miles hauling produce out but no limit incoming.

I also think that there are ways available of getting loads onto trucks for long haulage, but obviously these come at a cost and at present plod seem to turn a blind eye to trailer weights and tractor speeds.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
One big problem ignored is loading of these trailers. My xperience of loading herbs into very large trailers was that we were getting a very uneven loading with a very large discrepancy on weight across the axles. I very much suspect nearl all overturns are away from the side of loading.
Then chuck in the mix, youngsters under pressure, both from the boss and their peers, to get a fast turn around encouraging racing. Then on top is the total adherence to putting the phone before all else, with probably 90% of drivers ignoring legislation and openly having a phone permanently glued to their ear or worse still texting and watching films etc, everywhere they go
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
One big problem ignored is loading of these trailers. My xperience of loading herbs into very large trailers was that we were getting a very uneven loading with a very large discrepancy on weight across the axles. I very much suspect nearl all overturns are away from the side of loading.
Then chuck in the mix, youngsters under pressure, both from the boss and their peers, to get a fast turn around encouraging racing. Then on top is the total adherence to putting the phone before all else, with probably 90% of drivers ignoring legislation and openly having a phone permanently glued to their ear or worse still texting and watching films etc, everywhere they go
The result is though as we see yet another batch of careful one or two man smaller businesses sacrificed on the altar of tighter regulations by the high priests of health and safety and assurance schemes. We just can't absorb the time and expense for these extra measures.
Yet it still won't address the problem of inexperience and downright recklessness of younger drivers passively encouraged by irresponsible employers.
And make no mistake, I am not saying the lad who tragically died in the accident that brought on this scheme was to blame. The scheme is a worthy response and we should all do our best of safety. But it needs to be proportionate.
My three ton trailer will go safely across my own land at no more than 10 mph hauling beet as it has done for the last 40 years in perfect safety without needing an annual brake test. The contractor hauling maze for 40 miles each way, well I think its insane on all levels actually, and would better done by HGV.
If our trailers have to have an annual brake test on our ring fenced farm then its the end of our business and achieves what exactly?
 

roscoe erf

Member
Livestock Farmer
As far as the cost of inspections go:

A roadworthiness inspection for a HGV and trailer costs approximately £250. These (normally) can be a maximum of 12 weeks apart. In arduous conditions (such as off road the same as tractors), high mileage, or if the vehicle is over 12 years old, this is mandatorily reduced to 6 weeks. So you're looking at £250x8 = £2000/year.

You also then have the quarterly loaded brake test at £10/ axle, so £60/ time, £240/year. You then have to factor in downtime, dropping off at garage, or paying someone to aid the inspector if you have it done at your site.
So we're at £2240 / year before any remedial work or the annual MOT test.

There is no more money in running trucks than there is in farming, and yet they are forced by law to spend all this money to help keep our roads safe, so is it wrong for farmers to spend a fraction of this to help road safety.

I'm sure @Clive used to run trucks as well as the farm, but stopped doing it so there may even be more profit in farming than running trucks :ROFLMAO: ?

If our representative bodies all agreed on a test, and we, as an industry, supported it, the chances are the DVSA would take this and go a step further, and agree to higher weight limits or speeds for those that voluntarily take the test. This was even hinted at by the DfT representative at the NAAC transport conference a few years back.
just one note it can be 4 weeks not 6
 

Andrew

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
Huntingdon, UK
The result is though as we see yet another batch of careful one or two man smaller businesses sacrificed on the altar of tighter regulations by the high priests of health and safety and assurance schemes. We just can't absorb the time and expense for these extra measures.
Yet it still won't address the problem of inexperience and downright recklessness of younger drivers passively encouraged by irresponsible employers.
And make no mistake, I am not saying the lad who tragically died in the accident that brought on this scheme was to blame. The scheme is a worthy response and we should all do our best of safety. But it needs to be proportionate.
My three ton trailer will go safely across my own land at no more than 10 mph hauling beet as it has done for the last 40 years in perfect safety without needing an annual brake test. The contractor hauling maze for 40 miles each way, well I think its insane on all levels actually, and would better done by HGV.
If our trailers have to have an annual brake test on our ring fenced farm then its the end of our business and achieves what exactly?

Why on earth would you need a brake test on a ring fenced farm?If you never go on the road there are no regulations even for HGVs in this respect.
 

Mur Huwcun

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North West Wales
A lot of the HGV firms now will get an experienced member of staff to shadow all new starts for a couple of days, don't think it will ever really take off in the tractor driving world.. but it probably should

All proper firms will, they won’t let you out on your own no way and no way woukd you want to. It’s one thing taking an arctic around the test course in town, it’s a completely different ball game after!! All these companies have reoutation and servicelevels etc to maintain. Ironically if a young lad wants experience on HGV plenty farmers will let them out with cattle float that scraped through a test 9months ago and has had fuel put in tank since!!!
 

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