Defence funding boost

arcobob said:

I certainly never heard of the UK police needing armoured cars except perhaps in Ulster.

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A lot of the police forces have armoured vehicles, normally assigned to specialist firearms units, and yes, they do get used.

After 9/11 the cheque books were opened and a lot of new kit was purchased. Some really did take the pi$$, I know of five that have .50 Cals in their armouries

I certainly breathed a huge sigh of relief when I heard about the boost. I would not have been surprised if I'd turned on the news and heard that defence was going to take a massive hit to save money.

The world is a dangerous place and it would be foolish to suggest otherwise. We've got Russia deciding it wants a chunk of Ukraine, North Korea with working nuclear weapons firing them closer and closer to Japan, China militarising the South China Sea, the Iranians seizing ships and god knows how many genocidal terrorist groups operating in Africa. That's before you look at the humanitarian efforts of the Royal Navy during hurricane season, counter-poaching efforts by the Army and Op Shader, UK air policing and Baltic air policing going on for the RAF. These are all the commitments we're expecting the armed forces to crack on with. Most of them, the general public know nothing about. Part of the reason that defence doesn't win votes is that the public at large just assume that we have a military that will kick arses. The number of people who said to me that they weren't worried about North Korea because "we'd beat those crackpots no bother" is frightening.

Now look at the state of their kit. The RN's Type 23s totally shagged out, with their replacement Type 26s being built at a glacial pace to eek out work for the Clyde. The budget Type 31s not even in build yet and lacking punch. Aircraft carriers being sent to the South China sea as a show of force without proper Airborne Early Warning because that's another project being delivered at glacial pace to save a penny in the yearly budget even if it costs a pound in the long run. The Army is arguably in a terrible state, with a lack of serious firepower due to drawnout counter-insurgency campaigns in the dessert and money being spent on light vehicles that have since been scrapped due to treasury rules. The RAF is in a relatively good position in comparison but there's still talk of cuts to their AWACS aircraft, with other aircraft due to go out of service without replacement too.

Hindsight said:

What would you do with those extra 40,000 UK soldiers, so we can have same number as the French? And as for a navy undermanned - what would you do with the extra manning?...

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Back to back tours of NI in my time weren't uncommon, and became more so as numbers fell. Then there was Iraq, then Afghanistan etc. etc., and that's just the operational side. Men have to be trained, men need to be on leave, some get sick / injured and we 'train' a lot of people across the world too, it all takes numbers.

I've a friend who joined when I did and is now pretty senior. He's the first to admit, in private, that the Army needs a major shake up with regard to what he has and needs and uses, but he'll also tell you that the Regular Army has to have at least another 20,000 men to be able to fulfill current commitments and have a strategic reserve. Sure tech' can fill some gap, but we need more men, end of story.

To my mind the biggest cock-up was when the Army, and the other services too for all I know, started thinking that something was 'wrong' if Pvt Smith was still Pvt Smith after 'x' years of service. Not everyone wanted, needed or was capable of holding rank, but that didn't mean he wasn't good at what he did. It was the introduction of office management to the military and it has wrought havoc.

nivilla1982 said:

The RUC in the late 1960s early 1970s the had the armoury and equipment to make a third world army jealous.

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Well before my time, which was the end of the 80s into the early 90s, but they always seemed very glad of our company then... good lads though, I'd not have joined the RUC, UDR maybe, but not the RUC.

Muck Spreader said:

If you say, I don't know. Most French Fire-fighters are retained, I think there are only about 40,000 full time ones like Paris. It's always felt a bit odd here to be standing in the supermarket carpark, to suddenly have half a dozen Gendarmerie armoured cars arrive and the crews all jump out and go shopping.

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nivilla1982 said:

Y
Yep, isn't the Paris Fire Brigade a military unit?

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Yes Paris pompiers are Military, fella just down the road was in it.Did 3 years in Guyana too.
Marseille pompiers are Navy

Britain giving 28 million to French to "try" to stop migrants crossing the channel?

Still Farming said:

Britain giving 28 million to French to "try" to stop migrants crossing the channel?

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There are only three rational conclusions to this 'problem':1) the French authorities aren't able and competent to police their country's borders, or, 2) the French authorities are able and competent to police their country's borders, but a re deliberately not doing so, or 3) the French authorities are only partially able to police their country's borders and are trying to make some money out of this fact. But which is it...

Danllan said:

There are only three rational conclusions to this 'problem':1) the French authorities aren't able and competent to police their country's borders, or, 2) the French authorities are able and competent to police their country's borders, but a re deliberately not doing so, or 3) the French authorities are only partially able to police their country's borders and are trying to make some money out of this fact. But which is it...

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Only time will tell and how many still get across possibly?

Still Farming said:

Only time will tell and how many still get across possibly?

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Wait till the border is relocated back on the UK side, they'll be rocking up in Dover etc.
28 million will buy a lot of ferry tickets.

le bon paysan said:

Wait till the border is relocated back on the UK side, they'll be rocking up in Dover etc.
28 million will buy a lot of ferry tickets.

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But remember things are going to be so bad in the UK no one will ever want to come here ever again ever.

yin ewe said:

But remember things are going to be so bad in the UK no one will ever want to come here ever again ever.

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That will have to be a very low bar for a lot of refugees.

Muck Spreader said:

That will have to be a very low bar for a lot of refugees.

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But if the UK struggles outside the EU and the EU continues to prosper as it has been doing, why would refugees still want to come to the UK?

yin ewe said:

But if the UK struggles outside the EU and the EU continues to prosper as it has been doing, why would refugees still want to come to the UK?

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Because their families/ relations are already there.

yin ewe said:

But remember things are going to be so bad in the UK no one will ever want to come here ever again ever.

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Now we’ve taken back control, we can stop giving support to refugees when they arrive, and prevent them for signing up for benefits & free NHS treatment. Being in charge of our destiny will mean that we can treat them the same as every other EU country does, that’ll show ‘em.

Do you really think that will happen? I know Farage said he’d stop ‘em, but it was the UK govt that has chosen to extend that invitation, not the EU, rightly or wrongly (depending on your views on helping your fellow man).

It will be interesting watching HMG squirm, once they don’t have the EU to blame/hide behind for their decisions. We’re already seeing what they will do to our industry, once they have thrown off the shackles of being constrained by EU policies that are moulded by French and German farmers and their willingness to protest.

Pitch forks to Dover!

neilo said:

Now we’ve taken back control, we can stop giving support to refugees when they arrive, and prevent them for signing up for benefits & free NHS treatment. Being in charge of our destiny will mean that we can treat them the same as every other EU country does, that’ll show ‘em.

Do you really think that will happen? I know Farage said he’d stop ‘em, but it was the UK govt that has chosen to extend that invitation, not the EU, rightly or wrongly (depending on your views on helping your fellow man).

It will be interesting watching HMG squirm, once they don’t have the EU to blame/hide behind for their decisions. We’re already seeing what they will do to our industry, once they have thrown off the shackles of being constrained by EU policies that are moulded by French and German farmers and their willingness to protest.

Pitch forks to Dover!

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But we are told, rightly or wrongly, that people come to the UK mostly because they want to work and better themselves, if the UK economy is weaker than our counterparts in the EU, as many doomsayers seem to think, then why would these migrants/refugees continue to come to the UK.

I work with a fair few eastern europeans every day by the way and have nothing against people coming to the UK as long as they have work organised before they come. I find them to be good, honest hardworking folk who are doing jobs that lazy good for nothing norn irish people think they're above.

yin ewe said:

But we are told, rightly or wrongly, that people come to the UK mostly because they want to work and better themselves, if the UK economy is weaker than our counterparts in the EU, as many doomsayers seem to think, then why would these migrants/refugees continue to come to the UK.

I work with a fair few eastern europeans every day by the way and have nothing against people coming to the UK as long as they have work organised before they come. I find them to be good, honest hardworking folk who are doing jobs that lazy good for nothing norn irish people think they're above.

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For the life of me I can't find the paper now, but I read a Tory circular a few years ago, that estimated we could more than halve unemployment if we just made benefit scum work. Life is too cushy for too many, I don't owe anyone a living nor them me, and benefits are and should be for those in real need. If we did all this, people in real need could receive better provision and those currently dossing would make a contribution to the country.

le bon paysan said:

Because their families/ relations are already there.

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And/or they will have some level of English. For example, you don't find many African Francophones heading across the channel.

yin ewe said:

But we are told, rightly or wrongly, that people come to the UK mostly because they want to work and better themselves, if the UK economy is weaker than our counterparts in the EU, as many doomsayers seem to think, then why would these migrants/refugees continue to come to the UK.

I work with a fair few eastern europeans every day by the way and have nothing against people coming to the UK as long as they have work organised before they come. I find them to be good, honest hardworking folk who are doing jobs that lazy good for nothing norn irish people think they're above.

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As I've repeatedly said. It takes 6 months ish to get from refugee to being allowed to work in the UK. Then you are eligible for family reunification, ie. your wife and kids can come from whatever camp you left them in.
In France it takes from 2/ 4 Years to move to a status where you can work and are eligible for family reunification. This can then take 2/4 years to legally get them on French soil.
Where would you go?
Edit. There's nothing stopping the UK implementing the same rules as France. There never has been, it's lack of UK political will. You can't blame the EU for that,(but you do anyway ' cos its convenient).

le bon paysan said:

As I've repeatedly said. It takes 6 months ish to get from refugee to being allowed to work in the UK. Then you are eligible for family reunification, ie. your wife and kids can come from whatever camp you left them in.
In France it takes from 2/ 4 Years to move to a status where you can work and are eligible for family reunification. This can then take 2/4 years to legally get them on French soil.
Where would you go?
Edit. There's nothing stopping the UK implementing the same rules as France. There never has been, it's lack of UK political will. You can't blame the EU for that,(but you do anyway ' cos its convenient).

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Actually I don't blame the EU for any of the rules and regulations, the blame lies fair and square on our own bunch of useless spineless politicians who gold plated the rules and added a bit on top.
Perhaps now that there will be no hiding behind the EU they will be shown up for the gutless shower they are.


But I won't hold my breath.

yin ewe said:

Actually I don't blame the EU for any of the rules and regulations, the blame lies fair and square on our own bunch of useless spineless politicians who gold plated the rules and added a bit on top.
Perhaps now that there will be no hiding behind the EU they will be shown up for the gutless shower they are.


But I won't hold my breath.

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It'll be more the gutless electorate that won't vote for change.

caveman said:

It'll be more the gutless electorate that won't vote for change.

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Change in what?