Levelling Up

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
This older and wiser thing is a total myth. And as for the young expecting people to look after them I think they would be quite happy for everything to open up and be able to get on looking after themselves and really the whole crisis has been brought about because we have to stop everything to protect the old and vulnerable.I’d like to add older people can be just as much a bunch of hits often more so than young people.
How about we replace 'old and vulnerable' with 'loved ones' ?
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
If we are not careful there will be no economy left worth saving.

I am amazed the world economy hasn’t crashed far more than it has, i think its pinning its hopes on the vaccine.

If the vaccine doesn’t start to make serious inroads into this virus come summer, then I think we are in far more trouble than we realise. No country’s economy can afford another 12 months like we have just experienced
 

linga

Member
Location
Ceredigion
This older and wiser thing is a total myth. And as for the young expecting people to look after them I think they would be quite happy for everything to open up and be able to get on looking after themselves and really the whole crisis has been brought about because we have to stop everything to protect the old and vulnerable.I’d like to add older people can be just as much a bunch of hits often more so than young people.
I have to admit to stirring a bit with my post and I agree that the old can be just as bad as the young.
By the way I didnt use the phrase "looking after themselves", I wrote "provide for " which is slightly different
Nevertheless @kfpben does say that the young should be recompensed and the money should come from the old.
I wonder at what age you become old ?!
I am pretty sure that many "old"people have had their lives and businesses ruined too .
@kfpben certainly makes a good point that its difficult to provide for yourself if you cannot do your job but this difficulty is not limited to the young.
We are actually all in this together and we should all protect and help each other regardless of age.
 

kfpben

Member
Location
Mid Hampshire
For some, yes. What would you have done differently?
Probably not much. The point remains though- the young and productive and those still in education have made enormous sacrifices to save the elderly from a virus that barely affects the young.
There should be a financial transfer down the generations to acknowledge this.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
I didn’t say that actually, that was Essex man.
In any case the average UK house price is £256,000.
A lot of parents don’t have a decent property. A lot are in council houses, rent privately, or are paying off a mortgage on a damp, mouldy terrace in a decaying seaside town.

In any case it could easily be 50, 60, 70 before the inherit anything- so what can people do in the meantime?
I thought Margaret Thatcher sold all the council houses. This was done at knockdown prices to sitting tenants. Most children are heavily supported by retired grandparents who have worked and saved hard because they in turn were often left little by their forefathers who had suffered years of depredation as a result of the second world war.
In essence your argument has some merit but the way it has been arrived at is full of holes and your means of correcting the problem are a bit thin. Yes, I have a bus pass but cannot use it, I, like all pensioners pay for a TV licence and yes, I and my wife do support our children and grandchildren as far as the constraints of the tax man allows.
 

kfpben

Member
Location
Mid Hampshire
I thought Margaret Thatcher sold all the council houses. This was done at knockdown prices to sitting tenants. Most children are heavily supported by retired grandparents who have worked and saved hard because they in turn were often left little by their forefathers who had suffered years of depredation as a result of the second world war.
In essence your argument has some merit but the way it has been arrived at is full of holes and your means of correcting the problem are a bit thin. Yes, I have a bus pass but cannot use it, I, like all pensioners pay for a TV licence and yes, I and my wife do support our children and grandchildren as far as the constraints of the tax man allows.
Google tells me there are still 4 million council and housing association homes in the UK.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
If you love them then you look after them
That’s good but my biggest worry is the precedent set by all of this in that it’s the duty of the State not the individual to do what is right. For the future I can see every time there is a flu epidemic or measles or mumps (or whatever) then everything has to be shut down leading to far more damage than the actual disease could ever do.
 

had e nuff

Member
Location
Durham
The Tories say they want to ‘Level up’ the country.

Given the immense sacrifices made by the young in locking down to save the lives of the elderly the first thing the government should do is raise the pension age, cut the state pension, end free TV licences, free bus passes and other indulgences that the old receive. The money saved should be spent on improving schools, reducing tuition fees, improving vocational training and raising the wages of public sector employees for the under 25s.

The young are hardly affected by the virus, yet they have had their futures wrecked. The elderly need to say thank you with cash.

Discuss
If the pension age is raised surely that means even less jobs for the young.
I know plenty of youngsters that waste money like there was no tomorrow. Latest phone every year. New car on the driveway. Think nothing of spending £100 on a night out getting p...ed.
Why should older people subsidise this sort of lifestyle.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
I have to admit to stirring a bit with my post and I agree that the old can be just as bad as the young.
By the way I didnt use the phrase "looking after themselves", I wrote "provide for " which is slightly different
Nevertheless @kfpben does say that the young should be recompensed and the money should come from the old.
I wonder at what age you become old ?!
I am pretty sure that many "old"people have had their lives and businesses ruined too .
@kfpben certainly makes a good point that its difficult to provide for yourself if you cannot do your job but this difficulty is not limited to the young.
We are actually all in this together and we should all protect and help each other regardless of age.
I like stirring too. I don’t think he was saying give the young money from the old per se. but I do think he meant reduce the future tax burden on the young by taking from the older more wealthier members of society. But I could be putting words into his mouth.
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
Probably not much. The point remains though- the young and productive and those still in education have made enormous sacrifices to save the elderly from a virus that barely affects the young.
There should be a financial transfer down the generations to acknowledge this.

We've all made sacrifices. A lot have died or are suffering long term health problems simply because they cracked on with their jobs to keep the economy / healthcare going.
 

kfpben

Member
Location
Mid Hampshire
I like stirring too. I don’t think he was saying give the young money from the old per se. but I do think he meant reduce the future tax burden on the young by taking from the older more wealthier members of society. But I could be putting words into his mouth.
Indeed, through the tax and benefits system, not just a cash lump sum.
Just to make clear, I don’t really have any skin in this game. I’m 33, no kids currently, no elderly parents. I certainly wouldn’t be expecting any money.
It just makes me so angry to see good local youngsters having their precious early years wasted by force of law.
College and uni courses have been stopped. Kids being ‘home schooled’ when our internet cuts out regularly and parents aren’t able to help due to lack of subject knowledge. The 18 year old lad who helps me a couple of days a week who has no social life and it is illegal for him to see his girlfriend.

Every year when you are young is crucial for personal development.
 
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arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Probably not much. The point remains though- the young and productive and those still in education have made enormous sacrifices to save the elderly from a virus that barely affects the young.
There should be a financial transfer down the generations to acknowledge this.
How?
Google tells me there are still 4 million council and housing association homes in the UK.
I live opposite a large housing association complex . It is full of scroungers and druggies.
 

HAM135

Member
Arable Farmer
Some comments on here I find absolutely disgusting,I can't believe how little respect some have for there parents/grandparents.I lost my father to covid just before Christmas and it has been tough, weren't aloud with him at the end, couldn't even give him a proper funeral,unless you have lost someone close to you you have no idea,some of you really need to take a look in the mirror!
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Indeed, through the tax and benefits system, not just a cash lump sum.
Just to make clear, I don’t really have any skin in this game. I’m 33, no kids currently, no elderly parents. I certainly wouldn’t be expecting and money.
It just makes me so angry to see good local youngsters having their precious early years wasted by force of law.
College and uni courses have been stopped. Kids being ‘home schooled’ when our internet cuts out regularly and parents aren’t able to help due to lack of subject knowledge. The 18 year old lad who helps me a couple of days a week who has no social life and it is illegal for him to see his girlfriend.

Every year when you are young is crucial for personal development.
And I spose you think that the old just want to die
Some do, poor buggers but lots have plenty more good life to lead, that's if some virus ridden young upstart don't take it away from them
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
The Tories say they want to ‘Level up’ the country.

Given the immense sacrifices made by the young in locking down to save the lives of the elderly the first thing the government should do is raise the pension age, cut the state pension, end free TV licences, free bus passes and other indulgences that the old receive. The money saved should be spent on improving schools, reducing tuition fees, improving vocational training and raising the wages of public sector employees for the under 25s.

The young are hardly affected by the virus, yet they have had their futures wrecked. The elderly need to say thank you with cash.

Discuss
Is that setting aside the fact that the people receiving pensions paid in for the whole of their lives... you seem to be having the sort of 'meltdown' that one would normally expect from the entitled brats you mention.

Their futures are not 'wrecked', there is only a temporary problem. Suffering a severe spinal injury, having your spouse die when you've small children, or seeing a close friend blown to mincemeat in front of you could well be described as 'wrecking' one's life. Not the current situation in which everyone is in the same boat, there is an obvious route out of the problem, and we live in a rich democracy in which politicians can be forced to act if there is sufficient public will.

But tell you what, rather than taking money and services away from eighty year olds who have paid for and been promised them for life, why not completely cancel the UK's foreign aid budget? That will 'free-up' £15bns yearly which, by a happy coincidence, would allow a gift of >£10k to all university students not 'studying' for Mickey Mouse degrees from the University of Nowhere. Or, better still, entirely subsidise tuition for the students who are studying degrees beneficial to the country - there are about 700,000 of those - and give them a maintenance grant too. (y) :)

If you love them then you look after them
Should that be extrapolated to one's children too?
 

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