The Red Tractor ACCS referendum

Would you leave or remain a Red Tractor ACCS member ?

  • Yes, I would resign my Red Tractor (ACCS) membership and join a new "equal to imports" Scheme

    Votes: 659 96.1%
  • No, I would remain in the Red Tractor scheme

    Votes: 27 3.9%

  • Total voters
    686

Worsall

Member
Arable Farmer
This may be the way forward to force change?

What the Competition and Markets Authority does

We work to promote competition for the benefit of consumers, both within and outside the UK. We have staff in London, Edinburgh, Belfast and Cardiff.
CMA is a non-ministerial department.

Competition law and cartels:
Businesses abusing their ‘dominant position’
This is another major type of anti-competitive activity by businesses that you can report to the CMA.

A business might have a ‘dominant position’ in the market if:

  • it has more than a 40% market share
  • it’s not affected by normal competitive restraints
It might be abusing a dominant position if it’s unfair to its customers or other businesses.
Tell the CMA about a competition or market problem
How to notify the CMA if you think competition law might have been broken or you're concerned there’s a problem in a market sector.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
This may be the way forward to force change?

What the Competition and Markets Authority does

We work to promote competition for the benefit of consumers, both within and outside the UK. We have staff in London, Edinburgh, Belfast and Cardiff.
CMA is a non-ministerial department.

Competition law and cartels:
Businesses abusing their ‘dominant position’
This is another major type of anti-competitive activity by businesses that you can report to the CMA.

A business might have a ‘dominant position’ in the market if:

  • it has more than a 40% market share
  • it’s not affected by normal competitive restraints
It might be abusing a dominant position if it’s unfair to its customers or other businesses.
Tell the CMA about a competition or market problem
How to notify the CMA if you think competition law might have been broken or you're concerned there’s a problem in a market sector.
Yes, we need to look at this.

From CMA...

Things you should not do
  • prevent members from using different contractual conditions from any association developed standard conditions if they wish to do so
So AIC/UFAS are saying that UK grain has to be RT assured to becused in a UFAS approved mill. Is this, therefore, contrary to the above law.

A further competition law is that businesses are not allowed to apply 'dissimilar trading conditions to similar trasactions'. Therefore, one must ask ourselves if it's legal for a mill to stipulate UK grain is assured at the farm level, whilst not stipulating it for imported grains.

This all depends on a company having a dominant market position (over 40% of a market).

Has one of the big rape crushers got over 40% of thre UK market? Also applies if smaller companies are universally all operating under the same terms of a trade association. So does this apply to the way the rules that the mills are operating under (i.e. all of them are stipulating that UK grain must be ACCS/SQC).

I'm intending to get my head around this this week.

We can refer this to the CMA. It costs nothing, and they investigate if they think there is a case to answer. Companies can be fined up to 10% of global turnover, so that is a HUGE risk for a global company.

What does everyone think?
 
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Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Examples of the types of arrangement which are generally prohibited under Chapter I and Article 101 include:
  • agreements which directly or indirectly fix purchase or selling prices, or any other trading conditions, for example, discounts or rebates, etc.;
  • agreements which limit or control production, markets, technical development or investment, for example, setting quotas or levels of output;
  • agreements which share markets or sources of supply; and
  • agreements which apply dissimilar conditions to similar transactions, placing other trading parties at a disadvantage.
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
View attachment 935862

I don't get the NFU. On the one hand Minette Batters and NFU have campaigned that imports should meet UK standards. That's a reasonable ask.

Then NFU partly own RT, and they've got NFU representatives on the sector boards. Who owns AIC (UFAS, TASC, FEMAS etc.)? I don't know, but whoever owns AIC, has made up an assurance scheme which stipulates UK grain must be gold plated RT assured, whilst openly allows imported grain to be used in the self same mills.

The two things just don't marry up together. They're completely opposing policies.

Looking at the RT combinables board, the NFU member of the board is Kit Papworth. Is Kit on TFF? Anyone know him?

If you read this Kit, what do you think? We'd be interested if you'd join the discussion on here as to how to move this forward and produce a reasoned policy going forward.

He isn’t the only NFU person on that list in the link above. Several others have very high places within the NFU.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I know its more bureaucratic nonsense being imposed on us.How do people remain members of the NFU i fail to understand.I think maybe more of their membership, these days,are likely to be lifestyle/ hobby farmers with a completely different outlook to life.
I wasn't consulted either and know of no one who was.Im not a NFU member so,perhaps,i don't need to participate.

this is the BIG issue with the NFU now imo - a (self) select few are deciding what “you” want and then lobbying for that

they are failing to actually ask their members what THEY want .......... this is making them less and less relevant to policy makers ....... if they don’t fix this it will be their undoing
 
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Dan Powell

Member
Location
Shropshire
The costs associated with being RT assured are just getting too much for small farmers. They're driving me out of business and affecting my mental welbeing. RT have got worker welfare guidance, yet as a small business they are slowly driving me out of business.

This is a very valid point. I really don't think they understand the workload small business owners have to take on. Why do I need a documented employee annual review for one bloke I chat to every day. If he's unhappy, he tells me.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
all sorts of droppings land on crops, how can purity be guaranteed?

it can not realistically and any consumer would accept that, it doesn’t even matter until the ingredient is proccessed into a ready to eat form anyway as milling wheat would be washed, cleaned processed and cooked before reaching anyones mouth !

RT is not realistic so flawed ........ we are letting the lunatics run the asylum .......... worse in fact ..... we are paying them to do so
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
The costs associated with being RT assured are just getting too much for small farmers. They're driving me out of business and affecting my mental welbeing. RT have got worker welfare guidance, yet as a small business they are slowly driving me out of business.

How can anyone who claims to work in the interest of farmers or in anyway represent them read the above and defend Red Tractor as a good thing ?

@Guy Smith ........ your silence is deafening ! .... what are we paying you £500/day for exactly ?
 

manhill

Member
I always thought that it we had another war, bureaucracy and red tape would target real important issues and pens would be swapped for rifles. Well we are in a war albeit against a virus at the moment but I don't see signs of there being any less pens and the nanny state is overbearingly pc and mushrooming. We could do with some courageous leadership now.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
And now the NFU are promoting another new body to professionalise agriculture. In itself its a good idea (a lean, farmer owned, organisation to record farmers qualifications to farm, both academic and vocational, with a record of ongoing cpd). They've started, once again, by involving the food industry in it though whose interest is entirely selfish rather than in farmers benefiting. As a result, if it gets off the ground, it'll be just like Red Tractor with ridiculous bureaucracy and running costs driven by aims to suit the rest of the food industry.
What is this new body called?

Let me guess - just like the VI for NRoSO it will be run by NFU people and so the gravy train continues. At least it will give the NFU Presidents/Vice presidents/board members another job to move onto after Red Tractor / AHDB / VI and so on.
Can see how you got the job with TFF 🤐
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
What is this new body called?
It's so memorable that t I've forgotten. I'll look it up......


The Institute for Agriculture and Horticulture.

"The Institute is being developed by a project group that includes the NFU, AHDB, farmers, employers, industry leaders and further and higher education specialists. The body will act as an umbrella, co-ordinating existing skills and training provision across England, bringing everything in to one, accessible place."
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
It's so memorable that t I've forgotten. I'll look it up......


The Institute for Agriculture and Horticulture.

"The Institute is being developed by a project group that includes the NFU, AHDB, farmers, employers, industry leaders and further and higher education specialists. The body will act as an umbrella, co-ordinating existing skills and training provision across England, bringing everything in to one, accessible place."
Never heard of it

 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Never heard of it

I wonder if it will actually be a proper "professional institution" with a constitution enshrining the right of all members to a one person one vote choice on policy and rules?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,290
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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