Agents’ cheery outlook post-BPS

Old Tup · Jan 26, 2021

So could an owner occupier retire, take the golden handshake......remain in the farmhouse and let the farm at whatever he can get.
For instance....grassland farm....youngster running sheep across it at whatever rent is achievable..
Rent would have to be realistic for the tenant though.
Or will Owner Occupier have to completely sell up.
Strikes me as a half way house to the Australian / New Zealand share farming set ups.

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 26, 2021

Tubbylew said:
S'funny I was saying the very same to a hedge laying client the other day whilst he was lamenting how poorly farmers treated their hedges, I said nearly exactly what you've written, but I also told him, that back in the day, there was an army of farm labourers managing hedges, they've all gone and expecting every farm to go back to rotational managment won't happen overnight.

Hedge cutting used to occupy staff in quiet times and provide useful fuel. These days "fuel" means oil based liquids unless you have a biomass boiler when hedge trimmings would just be too little and inconvenient.

Hedges are often just seen as a liability or an opportunity to claim environmental subs these days except to those of us interested in their wildlife value.

Cowcorn · Jan 26, 2021

ajd132 said:
no, go on? i really dont get what you are trying to insinuate?

Is that snazzy new avatar your current bedtime reading Adj ???

Theres hope for us ploughmen yet !!! We might even gain a new recruit . Maybe theELMS should include a special " extra" top up for good ploughing

wanton dwarf · Jan 26, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
Hedge cutting used to occupy staff in quiet times and provide useful fuel. These days "fuel" means oil based liquids unless you have a biomass boiler when hedge trimmings would just be too little and inconvenient.

Hedges are often just seen as a liability or an opportunity to claim environmental subs these days except to those of us interested in their wildlife value.

We have several hedges which we have let grow into trees .. still with the hedge as well.

It woud make sense if we could cop the trees every so often. But I think if we did the Council will put a TPO on them all.

IMHO hedges are a liability these days. I think they have no wildlife value at all .. the poor birds that do nest in them have them raided every year by Corvids.

Oilseed rape provided the best cover I have ever seen, loads of small birds everywhere. But of course we don;t grow that any more because of environmentalists.

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 26, 2021

wanton dwarf said:
We have several hedges which we have let grow into trees .. still with the hedge as well.

It woud make sense if we could cop the trees every so often. But I think if we did the Council will put a TPO on them all.

IMHO hedges are a liability these days. I think they have no wildlife value at all .. the poor birds that do nest in them have them raided every year by Corvids.

Oilseed rape provided the best cover I have ever seen, loads of small birds everywhere. But of course we don;t grow that any more because of environmentalists.

But OSR only provides cover for a few weeks a year.

Hedgerows are critical wildlife corridors, or used to be when they linked up across the countryside and were big enough or thick enough to provide diverse cover.

glasshouse · Jan 26, 2021

jendan said:
I was being sarcastic.I think it is an appalling way to farm.There should be a decent living to be had for a family on 200 acres of good grade 3 land or better,mixed farming. A vibrant rural farming community and with jobs right through the supply chain.It is what the CAP was set up to do,rather than most of the sub money going to the biggest landowners.

Yes

Billboy1 · Jan 26, 2021

250 isn't going to shift me off this aha , no chance . agents here have gone very quiet and we are overdue a rent review .
I know they will resist it but its got to be lowered . only thing that will shift me is a big pay off and i mean big you only get one go !

wanton dwarf · Jan 26, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
But OSR only provides cover for a few weeks a year.

Hedgerows are critical wildlife corridors, or used to be when they linked up across the countryside and were big enough or thick enough to provide diverse cover.

Winter OSR provides cover for 6+ months. Birds nest in the OSR, plenty of food around the birds of all kinds. The stalks provide cover for ground nesting birds. Bees, hover flies etc.

What wildlife uses hedges ? Birds fly, mammals have tracks through crops, ground nesting birds don't use hedges because the grass is too long. Insects that migrate have wings .. I cannot recall anything going around a field using hedges. I've never seen tracks that follow hedge lines, most go straight through.

DRC · Jan 26, 2021

Old Tup said:
So could an owner occupier retire, take the golden handshake......remain in the farmhouse and let the farm at whatever he can get.
For instance....grassland farm....youngster running sheep across it at whatever rent is achievable..
Rent would have to be realistic for the tenant though.
Or will Owner Occupier have to completely sell up.
Strikes me as a half way house to the Australian / New Zealand share farming set ups.

What’s the point?
If a farmer sells up , it’s likely to be a bigger established farmer that buys it, not a new entrant .

neilo · Jan 26, 2021

Billboy1 said:
250 isn't going to shift me off this aha , no chance . agents here have gone very quiet and we are overdue a rent review .
I know they will resist it but its got to be lowered . only thing that will shift me is a big pay off and i mean big you only get one go !

AHA tenants will be sitting pretty as rent is based on 'earning capacity of the holding' and doesn't include any rental value for the house. There would be very strong grounds for arguing for a rent reduction on many units that have had their rents steadily increase over the years. You guys will have to fight for it though, agents will be very happy to let it carry on quietly.

FBT rents are based on comparative values of other holdings, as well as a market rental value for any house(s). Tenants will only be able to argue them down after a period when rents have fallen, which will always be a couple of years behind incomes falling off a cliff. Again, those tenants will have to fight for it.

Interesting times, and maybe a bloody nose will be in order for those agents that try to increase rents by inflation (WTF is that idea all about).

Billboy1 · Jan 26, 2021

Your right but on this estate the aha agent started including a rental value for the house when they were running out of ideas of how to get the rents up . And yes its down to earning capacity so they need to take a share of the pain .

wanton dwarf · Jan 26, 2021

silverfox said:
What’s the point?
If a farmer sells up , it’s likely to be a bigger established farmer that buys it, not a new entrant .

Yep. Those that retire will most likely be where the farming family has broken up and the sons/daughters go off to pastures new - or there are no offspring.

Hampton · Jan 26, 2021

Fake it ‘til you make it said:
I feel like this about a lot of farm shops. I wouldn’t want the hassle of having to be a butcher in order to fund my livestock farming habit.

Was talking to someone not long ago and he said
“My dad had a 400 acre dairy farm and put 3 kids through famous boarding schools, I’m farming 3000 acres and it’s a struggle to put one through the local grammar!”
Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

Steevo · Jan 26, 2021

Hampton said:
Was talking to someone not long ago and he said
“My dad had a 400 acre dairy farm and put 3 kids through famous boarding schools, I’m farming 3000 acres and it’s a struggle to put one through the local grammar!”
Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

Try fast forwarding that through yet another generation.....it doesn't even bear thinking about.

Northern territory · Jan 26, 2021

It all seems to be heading into the hands of fewer bigger farming organisations.
A bit like the fishing programme on last night. You had to be worth millions to even buy the quota to fish unless you had it historically. My opinion for what it’s worth is that what happens to the commodity markets. Take B&B pigs, if a proportion of farmers kick land into environmental schemes and out of arable where is the straw going to come from. It will cause local imbalances in supply.

Goffer · Jan 26, 2021

They say history repeats itself many times over and so with ELMS brings discussion with the old fart (while searching for a drain that’s on the map but not where it should be) about what to look for and what’s gonna happen, Nothing concrete but let see he says . More intriguing the conversation carries until he comes out with “ smells and looks like a tart with fur coat and no knickers “ eh ? I replied. Now remember he’s nearly 80 , wise as an owl fit, as a butchers dog . Well he says they’ll be buttering you up to get into it, waiting to see if the ‘agent’ agrees thats the best for them and then you but they’ll want there pound of flesh for it .its a bit like the old ADAS , Then you’ll do the work for it and like this bloody 60 mm drain that we can’t find , years later it was only half done job because the money’s hardly enough . This should of been better thought and stoned properly then we wouldn’t be looking for the damn thing ( we was on our 3rd hole after 2 hrs ) . The drain in question was part of a wider scheme laid in 1984 under the FHDS scheme of the time and was all that they would agree too and no backfill. Later we found it , blocked with silt to which “ your gonna have to put hand it your pocket , from what I’ve heard today about elms it won’t pay your rent in years to come . And As the bucket swings subsoil back into the hole He turns and says “ are we farmers or to become park keepers , I’ve never paid to sit in a park and neithers no one else but they’ll bloody pay when there belly’s rumbling “ Land that’s made to be farmed will continue to be in his wisdom . Series 3 or 4 blue clay that’s been grass forever until about 1970 may go back to something similar but here the phone calls been made , drainage contractor coming next week with the news. Good or bad depending which way you look at it

glasshouse · Jan 26, 2021

Steevo said:
Try fast forwarding that through yet another generation.....it doesn't even bear thinking about.

The coming famine will reset it all

Steevo · Jan 26, 2021

glasshouse said:
The coming famine will reset it all

Famine for the general population......or are we thinking that the "son's son" won't be able to afford food, let alone the grammar school education?!

Steevo · Jan 26, 2021

Northern territory said:
It all seems to be heading into the hands of fewer bigger farming organisations.
A bit like the fishing programme on last night. You had to be worth millions to even buy the quota to fish unless you had it historically. My opinion for what it’s worth is that what happens to the commodity markets. Take B&B pigs, if a proportion of farmers kick land into environmental schemes and out of arable where is the straw going to come from. It will cause local imbalances in supply.

Indeed - 30% of UK fishing quota held by just 5 families!

AJ123 · Jan 26, 2021

neilo said:
No it's not. The are just putting the finishing touches to a very similar scheme to the one that has been in place for the last 5 years. Presumably it will be another 5 years before the CAP is up for reform again.

UK is going it alone in this experiment.

Ok 5 years, gives them time to see how we get on, although the structural changes here won’t quite be seen by then so it might be two cycles before they make any great leaps??

Agents’ cheery outlook post-BPS

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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